Ball Dif VS Gear Diff & Why
12-21-2010, 06:53 AM
#91
I converted my B44 to run Durango gear diffs after running it for about a year with ball diffs..
With the gear diffs I felt I could brake later into corners without going sideways, if I want it to go sideways I have to flick it. Corner exit was better because I wasn't exiting corners sideways so often. That's running 30000 weight in the front and 5000 in the rear. The thick oil in the front diff is probably what makes the difference. You'd probably snap the screw on a ball diff if you tried to tighten it up that much..
With the gear diffs I felt I could brake later into corners without going sideways, if I want it to go sideways I have to flick it. Corner exit was better because I wasn't exiting corners sideways so often. That's running 30000 weight in the front and 5000 in the rear. The thick oil in the front diff is probably what makes the difference. You'd probably snap the screw on a ball diff if you tried to tighten it up that much..
12-21-2010, 07:10 AM
#92
On factor it seems to come down to is the ability to handle the load placed on it.We know a gear diff can handle a heavy load and high power due to being the standard in 1/8th and working well in 1/10th 4wd.
I can see where it may be way to heavy and not smooth enough for a 2wd buggy as most to none have them.
So where does this leave use for short course the trucks are bigger and heavier than 1/10th scale buggies and Stadium trucks plus the tire size is similar to 1/8th scale buggy tires.
It seems that both can work well. I can also rebuild my ball diff in about 15 min. but i like the ability of changing oils to tune a gear diff.
I do not see why some people cannot keep an objective view on the topic and by not staying open minded we may miss a great opportunity to learn something new and all go faster together.
I can see where it may be way to heavy and not smooth enough for a 2wd buggy as most to none have them.
So where does this leave use for short course the trucks are bigger and heavier than 1/10th scale buggies and Stadium trucks plus the tire size is similar to 1/8th scale buggy tires.
It seems that both can work well. I can also rebuild my ball diff in about 15 min. but i like the ability of changing oils to tune a gear diff.
I do not see why some people cannot keep an objective view on the topic and by not staying open minded we may miss a great opportunity to learn something new and all go faster together.
12-21-2010, 08:22 AM
#93
Someone posted earlier that a gear diff sends more power to the wheel which is slipping which is what I also found it to be true. Think about how many photos you see of an 1/8 vehicle at speed and one or two of the tires look not unlike a pizza cutters! You can over come that problem in 1/8 scale because you have 2-3 other wheels with traction and a center diff. But a gear diff will always cause 2wd 1/10 vehicles to be loose on power especially on medium to low traction surfaces.
For those of us who used to run Gas Truck, back in the day, it was very clear that ball diffs were better than gear diffs. One of my first cars was an HIP Rush with a diff that had an optional spring kit to tune it with. No matter what I did, I could never get my car to square up and corner as well as a RC10GT or XXXNT. The Rustlers had the same problem.
Despite what I know, I recently attempted to run a gear diff in my T4.
I tried it first at a large dusty outdoor track with an 8.5 motor. I attempted tuning the diff with 30 wt shock oil, 5000 wt diff oil, 10,000 wt diff oil and ended up at 30,000 wt diff oil (as recommended by Xtreme RC Car test with the HIP Blitz) but it was always loose, especially on exit of low speed turns. The gear diff was a disaster with a mod motor and low traction. My T4 performed a lot like my old Rush did!
I'm not one to give up so I also tried the gear diff at a high traction clay indoor track with a 13.5 and I was surprised to find that it actually performed very well. My truck turned in much better with the gear diff and traction on corner exit was not a problem. So, I'm going to leave it in for as long as I can this winter mostly for convenience. But somewhere in the back of my mind I know the ball diff would be slightly quicker.
I am aware that gear diffs are working great on dirt ovals but I dont think its the same as a road course. You can tune a gear diff an oval car to the point that it works incredibly well on 2 similar sweeping high speed turns but its not possible to get that same gear diff to work as well as a ball diff on a track with 10 different turns including the typical low speed 180s.
Based upon my experience, I would advise to leave the gear diff in if you're running stock short course (you have to anyhow) or even 17.5 or 13.5 short course, but, I would not want to run a gear diff with a mod motor in a 2wd vehicle.
For those of us who used to run Gas Truck, back in the day, it was very clear that ball diffs were better than gear diffs. One of my first cars was an HIP Rush with a diff that had an optional spring kit to tune it with. No matter what I did, I could never get my car to square up and corner as well as a RC10GT or XXXNT. The Rustlers had the same problem.
Despite what I know, I recently attempted to run a gear diff in my T4.
I tried it first at a large dusty outdoor track with an 8.5 motor. I attempted tuning the diff with 30 wt shock oil, 5000 wt diff oil, 10,000 wt diff oil and ended up at 30,000 wt diff oil (as recommended by Xtreme RC Car test with the HIP Blitz) but it was always loose, especially on exit of low speed turns. The gear diff was a disaster with a mod motor and low traction. My T4 performed a lot like my old Rush did!
I'm not one to give up so I also tried the gear diff at a high traction clay indoor track with a 13.5 and I was surprised to find that it actually performed very well. My truck turned in much better with the gear diff and traction on corner exit was not a problem. So, I'm going to leave it in for as long as I can this winter mostly for convenience. But somewhere in the back of my mind I know the ball diff would be slightly quicker.
I am aware that gear diffs are working great on dirt ovals but I dont think its the same as a road course. You can tune a gear diff an oval car to the point that it works incredibly well on 2 similar sweeping high speed turns but its not possible to get that same gear diff to work as well as a ball diff on a track with 10 different turns including the typical low speed 180s.
Based upon my experience, I would advise to leave the gear diff in if you're running stock short course (you have to anyhow) or even 17.5 or 13.5 short course, but, I would not want to run a gear diff with a mod motor in a 2wd vehicle.
12-21-2010, 09:33 AM
#94
Maybe I'm special ? 
I always go faster with the Factory team set-ups and a ball diff.......
Problem with the gear diff is bumps .
Off -road has lots of um & gears hate bumps .
One wheel in air & all is something gears do not handle very well compared to a ball diff.
A ball diff will accelerate straighter on a bumpy surface where a gear is pulling towards what ever wheel is digging in the last bump....
This is why Ball diff's are preferred by "almost" everyone ...
Gear diff's are great if you just run in ft of the house with the kids.
Ball diff is for racing because of its superior performance ....
I always go faster with the Factory team set-ups and a ball diff.......
Problem with the gear diff is bumps .
Off -road has lots of um & gears hate bumps .
One wheel in air & all is something gears do not handle very well compared to a ball diff.
A ball diff will accelerate straighter on a bumpy surface where a gear is pulling towards what ever wheel is digging in the last bump....
This is why Ball diff's are preferred by "almost" everyone ...
Gear diff's are great if you just run in ft of the house with the kids.
Ball diff is for racing because of its superior performance ....
12-21-2010, 09:53 AM
#95
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...
Last edited by racer1812; 12-21-2010 at 11:10 PM. Reason: had a retard moment........again
12-21-2010, 09:53 AM
#96
George, in 1/10 that may be the case, yes of course....but not true for all scales man, 1/8 Gas and EP cars are ALL gear diffs......so
bottom of the line is there is 2 options for a few vehicles on the market, I happen to own a xxxSCT which came with gear diff, yes Im dropping in a ball diff
so, it's real simple, tech has brought a ball diff and gear diff to the 1/10 market.................run what works for YOU...this should'nt be an argument, it should be pro's and con's of each for different applications, let's keep it real
for 2wd buggy/truck, the only thing I have learned or even know to use is a ball diff....LOL!
bottom of the line is there is 2 options for a few vehicles on the market, I happen to own a xxxSCT which came with gear diff, yes Im dropping in a ball diff
so, it's real simple, tech has brought a ball diff and gear diff to the 1/10 market.................run what works for YOU...this should'nt be an argument, it should be pro's and con's of each for different applications, let's keep it real
for 2wd buggy/truck, the only thing I have learned or even know to use is a ball diff....LOL!
Last edited by Trevor Williams; 12-21-2010 at 10:13 AM.
12-21-2010, 10:26 AM
#97
Ive run all kinds of diffs in all kinds of vehicles.
Id rather have to tune a ball diff than a gear diff on race day. Esp when running multiple classes. Pop off a link insert allen wrench and done - vs a tear down and rebuild...
A ball diff car feels way more consistent, period. Better in turns and runs a straighter line down the (ahem) straight.
Im running an rtr b4.1 and cant wait to get my hands on a FT car. Just cant find them (new). I have it set up as close as i can to a team spec, but a team car is going to work better with these settings. Mainly due to shocks and a ball diff. I just cant trust this gear diff in the corners. It seems to let loose at inopportune moments. I have it tuned as well as i can with oils but it simply is not the same. Very unreliable in the corners, running the same lines and throttle control.
The mechanical make-up of the diff is where its at.
Id rather have to tune a ball diff than a gear diff on race day. Esp when running multiple classes. Pop off a link insert allen wrench and done - vs a tear down and rebuild...
A ball diff car feels way more consistent, period. Better in turns and runs a straighter line down the (ahem) straight.
Im running an rtr b4.1 and cant wait to get my hands on a FT car. Just cant find them (new). I have it set up as close as i can to a team spec, but a team car is going to work better with these settings. Mainly due to shocks and a ball diff. I just cant trust this gear diff in the corners. It seems to let loose at inopportune moments. I have it tuned as well as i can with oils but it simply is not the same. Very unreliable in the corners, running the same lines and throttle control.
The mechanical make-up of the diff is where its at.
12-21-2010, 08:44 PM
#98
Ball diffs are exactly like open diffs, if one wheel lifts almost all power goes to that wheel and the car will stop accelerating completely. This is probably why ball diffs are more stable over bumps, if it stops accelerating it's not going to do anything weird, it'll just keep going straight until the wheel comes back down.
Gear diffs are limited slip provided by the silicone oil. Ever heard of a viscous LSD in a full size car? Nissan used to use them in Silvias and Skylines. They use silicone oil to provide limited slip action, bit different to the RC version though with a viscous coupling in the middle rather than having the oil work on the gears. Holding one side of the car off the ground while hammering the throttle the B44 tries to pull much harder with gear diffs and thick oil.
There is no way to get limited slip action on a ball diff unless you design some sort of viscous coupling into it, I thought of a way but it'd make the diff huge..
Gear diffs are limited slip provided by the silicone oil. Ever heard of a viscous LSD in a full size car? Nissan used to use them in Silvias and Skylines. They use silicone oil to provide limited slip action, bit different to the RC version though with a viscous coupling in the middle rather than having the oil work on the gears. Holding one side of the car off the ground while hammering the throttle the B44 tries to pull much harder with gear diffs and thick oil.
There is no way to get limited slip action on a ball diff unless you design some sort of viscous coupling into it, I thought of a way but it'd make the diff huge..
12-22-2010, 08:56 AM
#99
IMHO ball diffs are not as free as a lightly lubed gear diff. The ball diff resists slipping the inside tire more than the gear diffa nd you don't get the "inside tire fire" like you do with a gear diff. If you start playing with silicone oil in the gear diff you may be able to reduce or eliminate that tendency, but diff oil isn't cheap and finding the correct weight is hit or miss at best. Another problem is that gear diffs loosen up over time and oil that works in one diff may be too free in another. Ball diffs seem to be more consistent.
04-27-2011, 05:35 AM
#100
Why do all 1/8 scale all use gear diff?
04-27-2011, 05:57 AM
#101
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04-27-2011, 12:20 PM
#102
I'm more of a fan of gear diffs even though I run ball on my buggy.
Gear requieres no maintenance and is quieter compared to balls. No maintenance is a colossal plus for someone like me, that races and bashes with the same car.
Balls on the other way offer lightning fast regulation, easier rebuilding (usually cheaper aswell), and better handling in tight turns, to me the ball diff reacts faster than a geared one.
The requiere much more maintenance and wear out much faster than gear ones. They are also more expensive in the long run, since the intial extra price of a geared differential pays off after a couple of ball diff rebuilds.
Gear requieres no maintenance and is quieter compared to balls. No maintenance is a colossal plus for someone like me, that races and bashes with the same car.
Balls on the other way offer lightning fast regulation, easier rebuilding (usually cheaper aswell), and better handling in tight turns, to me the ball diff reacts faster than a geared one.
The requiere much more maintenance and wear out much faster than gear ones. They are also more expensive in the long run, since the intial extra price of a geared differential pays off after a couple of ball diff rebuilds.
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