Here it is! 1/8 Electric Taken to the Next Level!
#1
Here it is! 1/8 Electric Taken to the Next Level!
My patience waiting for companies to design an electric buggy from the ground up and done correctly had run out. Therefore it was time for me to go to the drawing board and attempt to do it myself. The compatibility a single brick pack or dual battery packs, a centerline driveline, centerline weight distribution and low CG all seemed simultaneously possible and favorable, yet did not seem to exist. So here is what I came up with, and it is a few steps ahead of both the Caster Fusion and Hyper 9e in terms of chassis layout.
It began with a Losi 8ight chassis, and me being a mechanical engineering student with access to the machine shop at school. I know the offset rear driveshaft makes it all that much more difficult to make completely centerline, but I’ve owned my 8ight as an electric for almost three years. I trust it, I know it inside and out – I could make it work. In short, after A LOT of thought, taking countless measurements with calipers, making a series of CAD models, drawings, and hours track mill time, here it finally is! (See attached images)
The first thing that had to happen was to put the front diff housing in the rear. This was not easy. The pivot braces that hold the a-arms are optimized for front suspension geometry and a front shock tower, which forced me to integrate the diff housing into the rear of the chassis… a few extra parts and some custom fitting, whatever… done.
As you can see, the center diff is moved as far forward as possible – the front outdrive nearly touches front diff housing. Keeping the wheelbase the same as stock, this leaves 214mm of space in the chassis for everything else. Dual battery packs of ROAR spec take up no more than 140mm, leaving enough room for a Tekin or Castle buggy motor on one side of the driveline and the rest of the electronics on the other side – even the big Mamba monster will fit with the receiver pushed off to the side. If one brick pack is used, everything else goes behind the motor. In the pictures are dual 40C 3000mAh 3s packs and a Tekno-Neu 1509 2.5Y/Mamba Max Pro esc.
Additional Design Features
Chassis: Made out of 3/16 inch thick 7075-T6 aluminum, countersunk .1100 inches to lower batteries by nearly a half inch, and then some due to the dual pack layout vs. a tall single pack. Right now, packs are just Velcro-ed to the chassis (works really well for slim packs weighing less than 12 ounces), but I will eventually make brackets that hold battery straps.
Motor plate: easy slide in allowing the motor screws to only need partial adjusting upon changing motors and pinion gears. Since the chassis is 3/16” thick, the Kyosho 46 tooth spur fits with ease. The motor plate also doubles as a servo holder and the servo mounts to it the same way the servo mounts in the Losi xxx-4 or in many other 1/10 scale vehicles.
Center drive shaft: Just an oversized aluminum rod poorly turned down on the lathe with holes to fit the CVD coupling and a press-fit pin for the dog bone end. It works.
Shock towers: Similar hole positions, but half inch lower shock mounts in the rear, and will be a quarter inch lower in the front (haven’t made the front shock tower to match the rear yet). I found that lowering the shock towers by this amount works just fine for all off road conditions through experience with using modded L8ight Model shock towers on the 8ight beforehand.
The end result?
A setup is approximately 6.6lb, and drops to 6.1lb with dual 40c 1800 mAh 3s packs – more than enough juice for 10 minute mains. I’ve only done one race night (I guess I can say I won) and some bashing in the street, but after this, the buggy’s handling is so much more precise with a lot more grip and no more lifting wheels in corners.
I am hoping after this, and the word is spread, companies will start catching on to finally do 1/8 electric the way it should be done. If by chance, you are the representative of a company reading this, a PM would be highly appreciated.
It began with a Losi 8ight chassis, and me being a mechanical engineering student with access to the machine shop at school. I know the offset rear driveshaft makes it all that much more difficult to make completely centerline, but I’ve owned my 8ight as an electric for almost three years. I trust it, I know it inside and out – I could make it work. In short, after A LOT of thought, taking countless measurements with calipers, making a series of CAD models, drawings, and hours track mill time, here it finally is! (See attached images)
The first thing that had to happen was to put the front diff housing in the rear. This was not easy. The pivot braces that hold the a-arms are optimized for front suspension geometry and a front shock tower, which forced me to integrate the diff housing into the rear of the chassis… a few extra parts and some custom fitting, whatever… done.
As you can see, the center diff is moved as far forward as possible – the front outdrive nearly touches front diff housing. Keeping the wheelbase the same as stock, this leaves 214mm of space in the chassis for everything else. Dual battery packs of ROAR spec take up no more than 140mm, leaving enough room for a Tekin or Castle buggy motor on one side of the driveline and the rest of the electronics on the other side – even the big Mamba monster will fit with the receiver pushed off to the side. If one brick pack is used, everything else goes behind the motor. In the pictures are dual 40C 3000mAh 3s packs and a Tekno-Neu 1509 2.5Y/Mamba Max Pro esc.
Additional Design Features
Chassis: Made out of 3/16 inch thick 7075-T6 aluminum, countersunk .1100 inches to lower batteries by nearly a half inch, and then some due to the dual pack layout vs. a tall single pack. Right now, packs are just Velcro-ed to the chassis (works really well for slim packs weighing less than 12 ounces), but I will eventually make brackets that hold battery straps.
Motor plate: easy slide in allowing the motor screws to only need partial adjusting upon changing motors and pinion gears. Since the chassis is 3/16” thick, the Kyosho 46 tooth spur fits with ease. The motor plate also doubles as a servo holder and the servo mounts to it the same way the servo mounts in the Losi xxx-4 or in many other 1/10 scale vehicles.
Center drive shaft: Just an oversized aluminum rod poorly turned down on the lathe with holes to fit the CVD coupling and a press-fit pin for the dog bone end. It works.
Shock towers: Similar hole positions, but half inch lower shock mounts in the rear, and will be a quarter inch lower in the front (haven’t made the front shock tower to match the rear yet). I found that lowering the shock towers by this amount works just fine for all off road conditions through experience with using modded L8ight Model shock towers on the 8ight beforehand.
The end result?
A setup is approximately 6.6lb, and drops to 6.1lb with dual 40c 1800 mAh 3s packs – more than enough juice for 10 minute mains. I’ve only done one race night (I guess I can say I won) and some bashing in the street, but after this, the buggy’s handling is so much more precise with a lot more grip and no more lifting wheels in corners.
I am hoping after this, and the word is spread, companies will start catching on to finally do 1/8 electric the way it should be done. If by chance, you are the representative of a company reading this, a PM would be highly appreciated.
#2
I think Losi can take notes and learn a few things from this student Engineer.
Hi Speedybl,
Absolutely awesome work you've done. I can't believe you did all this on your own, and you even kept the driveline stright which every 1/8th scale should have. You really did a great job. I can see you put allot of work into this Losi 8ight-E. And you're still in school, I would think Losi could hire you and put your ideas of this improved driveline to work for them. I also have a Losi 8ight-Electric but I became discouraged from all the problems the off-center drivetrain had given me. For example, the area from the center diff to the front diff gave allot of premature wear from the extreem angle of that drive shaft. And the CVD's are rebuildable but the set screw inside the cvd that holds the drive pin inside the drive shaft, always worked it's way loose, even when using locktite; and then to try to remove the old cvd to rebuid it was always a nightmare. I want to encorage you to start designing your own 1/8th scale buggy. With your straight drivetrain. It's a great idea, and you really do have quite a unique ability for this designing.
I parked both of my losi 8ights and bought the Ofna Hyper 9e. But please understand that when I bought my losi's over one year ago, that was my dream RC, and I trusted that losi got it right, I really believed that losi was the very best. But I was still getting lapped at the track when I raced, and I practiced allot. When I heard talk of a new kind of 1/8th scale buggy coming out, I kept an open mind. I later learned it had a centralized driveline without all the angles like the losi 8ight drivetrain. I learned that this new buggy coming out had the center diff moved all the way to the back of the buggy, sitting just in front of the rear diff. And in front of this center diff, was a one pieace aluminum, long drive shaft that ran from the back of the buggy, all the way to the front diff. And the entire driveline from rear diff to front diff, was finally and truly a straight line. Why it took so long for a RC manufacturer to do this is beyond my imagination. Why all RC manufacturers are not designing some variation of a stright, centralized driveline, is also completely unknown to me. But the design has promise. And ever sense I've been racing my Hyper 9e, I now lap the same people that use to lap me. I do not know why you mention the Hyper 9e does not have a straight line drivetrain, but from what I see, it's just as stright as your custom design. Unless you mean to include such specifics as you've done such as your custom motor placement and center diff moved to the front. As far as those specifics go, it would be nice if the RC kits came with such modification choices as where the racer chooses to put his or her center diff, in front such that you have done, or in rear; such as the Hyper 9e. Don't get me wrong, your work is outstanding, but so is the Hyper 9e, it's literally a masterpiece. I'm amazed at how light your custom made/modified losi 8ight E is. Just amazed at the work you have done. If you've not already done so, I would like you to take a look at Matrix Concepts Inc. Robert, the owner is a master craftsmen. Robert makes a complete Carbon Fiber kit exclusivly for the Losi 8ight, and his Chassis have been in the racing scene for over three years and not one has broke. Robert can and does tune the chassis flex in the manufacturing process to an exact race preferance. It's just amazing and something I strongly recumend anyone interested in racing; look into. At the moment, Robert is only selling the Losi 8ight carbon chassis, and also carbon shock towers and aluminum front and rear drive shafts/axles, and this adds up to significant weight reduction which alone will improve handling and response. Again, you have done a great job with your buggy, please continue to post pictures. Also, do you have any thoughts on a drivetrain that does not wear out so quickly? If anyone here does have ideas, please talk about them, this is very exciting everyone. The creative process is quite fun.
Absolutely awesome work you've done. I can't believe you did all this on your own, and you even kept the driveline stright which every 1/8th scale should have. You really did a great job. I can see you put allot of work into this Losi 8ight-E. And you're still in school, I would think Losi could hire you and put your ideas of this improved driveline to work for them. I also have a Losi 8ight-Electric but I became discouraged from all the problems the off-center drivetrain had given me. For example, the area from the center diff to the front diff gave allot of premature wear from the extreem angle of that drive shaft. And the CVD's are rebuildable but the set screw inside the cvd that holds the drive pin inside the drive shaft, always worked it's way loose, even when using locktite; and then to try to remove the old cvd to rebuid it was always a nightmare. I want to encorage you to start designing your own 1/8th scale buggy. With your straight drivetrain. It's a great idea, and you really do have quite a unique ability for this designing.
I parked both of my losi 8ights and bought the Ofna Hyper 9e. But please understand that when I bought my losi's over one year ago, that was my dream RC, and I trusted that losi got it right, I really believed that losi was the very best. But I was still getting lapped at the track when I raced, and I practiced allot. When I heard talk of a new kind of 1/8th scale buggy coming out, I kept an open mind. I later learned it had a centralized driveline without all the angles like the losi 8ight drivetrain. I learned that this new buggy coming out had the center diff moved all the way to the back of the buggy, sitting just in front of the rear diff. And in front of this center diff, was a one pieace aluminum, long drive shaft that ran from the back of the buggy, all the way to the front diff. And the entire driveline from rear diff to front diff, was finally and truly a straight line. Why it took so long for a RC manufacturer to do this is beyond my imagination. Why all RC manufacturers are not designing some variation of a stright, centralized driveline, is also completely unknown to me. But the design has promise. And ever sense I've been racing my Hyper 9e, I now lap the same people that use to lap me. I do not know why you mention the Hyper 9e does not have a straight line drivetrain, but from what I see, it's just as stright as your custom design. Unless you mean to include such specifics as you've done such as your custom motor placement and center diff moved to the front. As far as those specifics go, it would be nice if the RC kits came with such modification choices as where the racer chooses to put his or her center diff, in front such that you have done, or in rear; such as the Hyper 9e. Don't get me wrong, your work is outstanding, but so is the Hyper 9e, it's literally a masterpiece. I'm amazed at how light your custom made/modified losi 8ight E is. Just amazed at the work you have done. If you've not already done so, I would like you to take a look at Matrix Concepts Inc. Robert, the owner is a master craftsmen. Robert makes a complete Carbon Fiber kit exclusivly for the Losi 8ight, and his Chassis have been in the racing scene for over three years and not one has broke. Robert can and does tune the chassis flex in the manufacturing process to an exact race preferance. It's just amazing and something I strongly recumend anyone interested in racing; look into. At the moment, Robert is only selling the Losi 8ight carbon chassis, and also carbon shock towers and aluminum front and rear drive shafts/axles, and this adds up to significant weight reduction which alone will improve handling and response. Again, you have done a great job with your buggy, please continue to post pictures. Also, do you have any thoughts on a drivetrain that does not wear out so quickly? If anyone here does have ideas, please talk about them, this is very exciting everyone. The creative process is quite fun.
My patience waiting for companies to design an electric buggy from the ground up and done correctly had run out. Therefore it was time for me to go to the drawing board and attempt to do it myself. The compatibility a single brick pack or dual battery packs, a centerline driveline, centerline weight distribution and low CG all seemed simultaneously possible and favorable, yet did not seem to exist. So here is what I came up with, and it is a few steps ahead of both the Caster Fusion and Hyper 9e in terms of chassis layout.
It began with a Losi 8ight chassis, and me being a mechanical engineering student with access to the machine shop at school. I know the offset rear driveshaft makes it all that much more difficult to make completely centerline, but I’ve owned my 8ight as an electric for almost three years. I trust it, I know it inside and out – I could make it work. In short, after A LOT of thought, taking countless measurements with calipers, making a series of CAD models, drawings, and hours track mill time, here it finally is! (See attached images)
The first thing that had to happen was to put the front diff housing in the rear. This was not easy. The pivot braces that hold the a-arms are optimized for front suspension geometry and a front shock tower, which forced me to integrate the diff housing into the rear of the chassis… a few extra parts and some custom fitting, whatever… done.
As you can see, the center diff is moved as far forward as possible – the front outdrive nearly touches front diff housing. Keeping the wheelbase the same as stock, this leaves 214mm of space in the chassis for everything else. Dual battery packs of ROAR spec take up no more than 140mm, leaving enough room for a Tekin or Castle buggy motor on one side of the driveline and the rest of the electronics on the other side – even the big Mamba monster will fit with the receiver pushed off to the side. If one brick pack is used, everything else goes behind the motor. In the pictures are dual 40C 3000mAh 3s packs and a Tekno-Neu 1509 2.5Y/Mamba Max Pro esc.
Additional Design Features
Chassis: Made out of 3/16 inch thick 7075-T6 aluminum, countersunk .1100 inches to lower batteries by nearly a half inch, and then some due to the dual pack layout vs. a tall single pack. Right now, packs are just Velcro-ed to the chassis (works really well for slim packs weighing less than 12 ounces), but I will eventually make brackets that hold battery straps.
Motor plate: easy slide in allowing the motor screws to only need partial adjusting upon changing motors and pinion gears. Since the chassis is 3/16” thick, the Kyosho 46 tooth spur fits with ease. The motor plate also doubles as a servo holder and the servo mounts to it the same way the servo mounts in the Losi xxx-4 or in many other 1/10 scale vehicles.
Center drive shaft: Just an oversized aluminum rod poorly turned down on the lathe with holes to fit the CVD coupling and a press-fit pin for the dog bone end. It works.
Shock towers: Similar hole positions, but half inch lower shock mounts in the rear, and will be a quarter inch lower in the front (haven’t made the front shock tower to match the rear yet). I found that lowering the shock towers by this amount works just fine for all off road conditions through experience with using modded L8ight Model shock towers on the 8ight beforehand.
The end result?
A setup is approximately 6.6lb, and drops to 6.1lb with dual 40c 1800 mAh 3s packs – more than enough juice for 10 minute mains. I’ve only done one race night (I guess I can say I won) and some bashing in the street, but after this, the buggy’s handling is so much more precise with a lot more grip and no more lifting wheels in corners.
I am hoping after this, and the word is spread, companies will start catching on to finally do 1/8 electric the way it should be done. If by chance, you are the representative of a company reading this, a PM would be highly appreciated.
It began with a Losi 8ight chassis, and me being a mechanical engineering student with access to the machine shop at school. I know the offset rear driveshaft makes it all that much more difficult to make completely centerline, but I’ve owned my 8ight as an electric for almost three years. I trust it, I know it inside and out – I could make it work. In short, after A LOT of thought, taking countless measurements with calipers, making a series of CAD models, drawings, and hours track mill time, here it finally is! (See attached images)
The first thing that had to happen was to put the front diff housing in the rear. This was not easy. The pivot braces that hold the a-arms are optimized for front suspension geometry and a front shock tower, which forced me to integrate the diff housing into the rear of the chassis… a few extra parts and some custom fitting, whatever… done.
As you can see, the center diff is moved as far forward as possible – the front outdrive nearly touches front diff housing. Keeping the wheelbase the same as stock, this leaves 214mm of space in the chassis for everything else. Dual battery packs of ROAR spec take up no more than 140mm, leaving enough room for a Tekin or Castle buggy motor on one side of the driveline and the rest of the electronics on the other side – even the big Mamba monster will fit with the receiver pushed off to the side. If one brick pack is used, everything else goes behind the motor. In the pictures are dual 40C 3000mAh 3s packs and a Tekno-Neu 1509 2.5Y/Mamba Max Pro esc.
Additional Design Features
Chassis: Made out of 3/16 inch thick 7075-T6 aluminum, countersunk .1100 inches to lower batteries by nearly a half inch, and then some due to the dual pack layout vs. a tall single pack. Right now, packs are just Velcro-ed to the chassis (works really well for slim packs weighing less than 12 ounces), but I will eventually make brackets that hold battery straps.
Motor plate: easy slide in allowing the motor screws to only need partial adjusting upon changing motors and pinion gears. Since the chassis is 3/16” thick, the Kyosho 46 tooth spur fits with ease. The motor plate also doubles as a servo holder and the servo mounts to it the same way the servo mounts in the Losi xxx-4 or in many other 1/10 scale vehicles.
Center drive shaft: Just an oversized aluminum rod poorly turned down on the lathe with holes to fit the CVD coupling and a press-fit pin for the dog bone end. It works.
Shock towers: Similar hole positions, but half inch lower shock mounts in the rear, and will be a quarter inch lower in the front (haven’t made the front shock tower to match the rear yet). I found that lowering the shock towers by this amount works just fine for all off road conditions through experience with using modded L8ight Model shock towers on the 8ight beforehand.
The end result?
A setup is approximately 6.6lb, and drops to 6.1lb with dual 40c 1800 mAh 3s packs – more than enough juice for 10 minute mains. I’ve only done one race night (I guess I can say I won) and some bashing in the street, but after this, the buggy’s handling is so much more precise with a lot more grip and no more lifting wheels in corners.
I am hoping after this, and the word is spread, companies will start catching on to finally do 1/8 electric the way it should be done. If by chance, you are the representative of a company reading this, a PM would be highly appreciated.
#5
Great work!
#8
We need a Clip In/Clip on battery holder for 1/8 scale Electric For 45min Mains.
Hi gone bananas,
that's a genius idea, kinda like a drill battery does, and you wouldn't even plug the battery in to the buggy because the battery would already be plugged into the tray that stays with the battery, then you click/snap the battery with tray into the buggy and that's where the battery connacts underneath the tray. Guess the idea is kinda like a tray within a tray, and they lock together and the contacts for the battery connect between the two trays. It's a brilliant idea and I would buy one right now because I love racing those long races. Someone should be able to put this together, allot of people on this forum make their own parts, and I'm at the point where I am starting to work out some designs for a slop free drivetrain. Knowone likes a loose drivetrain, I sure don't. Great idea. Maybe Speedybl can make it. I think he should mass produce his straight drivetrain conversion kit for the Losi 8ight E. His design is outstanding. Well Done.
that's a genius idea, kinda like a drill battery does, and you wouldn't even plug the battery in to the buggy because the battery would already be plugged into the tray that stays with the battery, then you click/snap the battery with tray into the buggy and that's where the battery connacts underneath the tray. Guess the idea is kinda like a tray within a tray, and they lock together and the contacts for the battery connect between the two trays. It's a brilliant idea and I would buy one right now because I love racing those long races. Someone should be able to put this together, allot of people on this forum make their own parts, and I'm at the point where I am starting to work out some designs for a slop free drivetrain. Knowone likes a loose drivetrain, I sure don't. Great idea. Maybe Speedybl can make it. I think he should mass produce his straight drivetrain conversion kit for the Losi 8ight E. His design is outstanding. Well Done.
#9
That's a nice looking chassis conversion. 6.6lbs. sounds almost impossible, what's still missing? I don't think it's revolutionary though. Keep in mind that the reason you haven't seen a ground-up electric 1/8th car is because 1/8th electric is still too small to constitute a business for a major manufatcurer. Remember what truggies looked like in the beginning (longer chassis plates and axle extenders)? Just because they aren't doing something doesn't mean they can't.
#10
What layout and materials would you use to make/build the ultimate 1/8 scale Buggy?
That's awesome symmetricon,
you and I should work together while your in school, I would love to colaborate on an entirely new design 1/8th scale buggy. One with a truly maintnance free, play/slop free drivetrain. Maybe a belt drive straight down the middle. As one variation. The only limitations is our imaginations. I've always loved these RC's. What's the ultimate dream design you would create, if you could make the ultimate 1/8th scale today? What materials would you use, titanium, carbon fiber, aluminum, high quality hardened steel(the good quality, not the stuff most RC manufacturers use), and where would you use said materials. Anyone can reply to this question, in fact please do.
you and I should work together while your in school, I would love to colaborate on an entirely new design 1/8th scale buggy. One with a truly maintnance free, play/slop free drivetrain. Maybe a belt drive straight down the middle. As one variation. The only limitations is our imaginations. I've always loved these RC's. What's the ultimate dream design you would create, if you could make the ultimate 1/8th scale today? What materials would you use, titanium, carbon fiber, aluminum, high quality hardened steel(the good quality, not the stuff most RC manufacturers use), and where would you use said materials. Anyone can reply to this question, in fact please do.
#11
Tech Regular
iTrader: (4)
Looks good. My only concern would be that the lack of chassis braces (even with a strategically milled chassis for flexural resistance) you might see some center driveline carnage on a big jump that was lawn darted or cased. Looks like there might be a place for a top deck of some sort to help keep the chassis from bending too much.
#12
Sweet looking ride.I would defitnetly be intrested in one,if you decide to make a couple.
#13
Tech Master
iTrader: (4)
Don't know if he has anything on his site yet, but the address is: www.moosracing.dk
#15
Tech Lord
iTrader: (32)
Looks good. My only concern would be that the lack of chassis braces (even with a strategically milled chassis for flexural resistance) you might see some center driveline carnage on a big jump that was lawn darted or cased. Looks like there might be a place for a top deck of some sort to help keep the chassis from bending too much.