lusifur

Not the fastest or the best, but another option for anyone interested...

are the Associated XP SC450 Brushless esc & 540R motor combos

I REALLY like the feel of the 3300kv in my B4.1 and they should be available soon for around $125 as a combo. It's pretty slow for a motor that's supposed to be comparable to a 13.5, but there are faster motors. I'd recommend the 3300 for beginners, 3900 for anyone with more than 6 months of driving experience. Maybe the 4900 for fast drivers?

If I was looking for another esc/motor combo- I'd probably go this route, even over my current Tekin RS & Redline setup.

Cheap, little low on power/speed, smooth, has reverse capability. No clue as to the longevity/durability of them yet, but I am already a fan.

For a sensorless setup, it's really, really smooth.

For power/speed/customization- I like Tekin.

Armaan

iTrader: (49)

I agree with you guys...they should really ban all timing-advanced ESC's from the "Stock" class.

Doing so would be comparable to NASCAR putting restrictor plates on carburetors of "Stock" cars, reducing the speeds on bigger tracks.

Fixed timing speed controls would solve this problem.

TY@TEAMTEKIN

Run a version of our software that does not include boost rather than forcing everyone to run cheap power systems. Run a 21.5 for stock, put everyone on a spec tire that doesn't hook up when over-driven. There are plenty of ways to slow people down other than banning all ESCs that have advanced this hobby from where it was 2-3 years ago.

K_King

iTrader: (47)

Ty, tell me the point in making a 17.5 when, say your ESC, can make it run as fast as a 10.5? How does this help the SPEC class? You are thereby forcing people to buy your product in order to compete, then other manufs do the same, and then the 17.5 speed class just became a 10.5, so they bump it back to a 21.5 and it starts all over.

As a manuf how are you helping the hobby if you are pushing the limits SO far that in order to compete, people are forced into purchasing more expensive units than they had before? As a manuf I know what you have to do, but as a hobbyist if I want to run a SPEC class I shouldnt have to make sure I have an ESC that has timing or get smoked. Thats not what SPEC is about.

Armaan

iTrader: (49)

Interesting, though how would tracks efficiently "tech" ESCs to see what software version has been downloaded? Unless they resort to 35-turn motors which would negate even the most advanced timing...

Krio

iTrader: (159)

That's why roar calls it a stock class, not spec.

GSMnow

We really can't blame Tekin, Castle, etc for this mess. They are building what the racers are demanding. The "STOCK" class has historically always been more expensive to stay competitive because of how the rules are written. I remember the original fixed timing cripmed end bell way back when. The top drivers had to buy a pile of motors, to test which had just that tick more power, and then see how far they could force the timing to advance without breaking a wire inside as they cranked the armature stack free from the shaft a few degrees. They really tried to stop this torture tweaking with the keyed com and all that, but it still didn't stop it all.

You want a restrictor plate? How about a race director supplied 0.1 ohm resistor that everyone has to run in series with the battery? Have it fues at say 40 amps. Peak power would be just 38 amps on a 7.6 volt batery pack, dropped to a mear 3.8 volts still making it to the ESC. Giving a max power of 144.4 wats to everyone in the field, use it any way you please. Run ANY motor you want, it will not matter one bit.You get a max of 144.4 watts. A little more at full charge, a tick less as the pack runs down, but close enough to put and end to this. I know it sounds silly, but it would be the only real level playing field on power. If you want a bit more power, drop it to a 0.07 ohm resistor. This would give 206.3 watts max at the same 7.6 volt pack average and just over 50 amps instead of the 38 amps on the 0.1 ohm setup. The LVC becomes a pain, but not impossible. But since your power is so limited in a 5 min race, it is no concern, turn the LVC off. Use a good cap or a separate RX and servo power source. This is easilly policed, and a competitor could ask for a new one if her felt it was out of spec. It is also easy to test with a simple current source low ohm meter. And I am not kidding at all, run any motor and ESC. The guy with the most efficient package will get the highest power to the ground. Timing advance will go to nil, guys will run 380 sized motors. People will use RX batteries to not have the load on the limited source. Ever see what a little RC18 can do on a 25 amp ESC with a 380 brushless setup? 200 watts is still a lot of power.

I also like the spec tire idea. At big events they have done this, have a tire maker sponser the event and everyone has to run the same tire. My biggest cost running my 1/8 electric is the tires. 460 a set runs 2 weeks, maybe 3.

K_King

iTrader: (47)

Yes it is a spec class when you have to run a certain wind of motor. 17.5 means just that. You are limited to the motor aka SPECIFIED as to what to run.

That is a SPEC class. Just because everyone doesnt have to run the same electronics doesnt mean that it isnt a SPEC class.

Krio

iTrader: (159)

I respectfully disagree on the terminology you are using.

Spec class means some or all of your equipment is spec'd to a single manufacturer. An example of such is the Slash "spec" class or handout spec motors at old races of lore when brushes still ruled.

Stock class means there are very specific rules that must be followed for any manufacturer to join in and anything within those rules may be played with or tweaked to gain performance. Stock racing drives people to find what is fastest within the given rules and is never a cheap class by definition.

K_King

iTrader: (47)

Well you are SPECIFIED to run a 17.5 yes? Thats all I am talking about in terms of spec.

Before BL came about it was about motor tuning, now its just about buying specific ESCs to make a 17.5 run like a 13.5 or faster.

Krio

iTrader: (159)

I know and you know what you meant by spec, but the 17.5 class is not a spec class. I've been chatting with a couple others on "spec vs stock" and carried it over to this thread. Sorry to derail the thread.

I would argue that while the motor wars have switched to the esc wars in the stock class, tekin is the saving grace of the racers. SOMEONE was going to look at the roar rules for stock, see that there are no rules against active timing, and develop such a system. Speed passion and Tekin just so happened to be the first ones out closely followed by the spx, orion, ko propo, Black Diamond, etc. Tekin esc's have not costed a penny to keep speeding up with advancements in timing technology. One company in particular *cough*lerp*cough* has charged $200 for each update. The racers demand is what is pushing these advancements and the esc manufacturers would be a fool not to develop faster esc's. If you ask me, tekin is the most ethical company under the current roar stock class rules. If stock is getting too fast and a different wind needs to be selected or rules need to be set up for esc timing, then that is a whole different topic for another thread.

QDRHRSE

iTrader: (515)

I have a box full of Novak SS Motors. The 17.5s and 13.5s have been flawless. I can't say that they are the fastest but I finish and win races and power is rarely a problem.....sort of, until recently.

I can't believe that it took me so long to find this thread. I too have been forced to buy an ESC with a boost feature because 2 guys with 17.5's have been flying by me in the straights on our local track. I took a third in the stock class last series and moved up to SS only to get out motored by guys that I beat last series in stock that still have 17.5's (the buggy classes have thinned out so much that Stock and SS have been running together).

My stuff always works good and for a few weeks I thought that maybe my GTB setups (I have 7 of them) were in fact inferior. Not the case at all! I started asking the guys what they are running and the Tekin RS, Mamba Max Pro, and SXX ESCs are starting to get popular because of the boost they offer. My Novak motors have good power and I don't think that I've ever pulled a car off the track [with a 17.5 or 13.5] at more than 120 degrees so I'm sure i could boost the heck out of those motors and still not overheat. It's too bad. I like my GTB ESCs as I've never had one fail....I did lose an SS10.5 motor prematurely though. Anyway, I have a few old Castle Mamba Max ESC's laying around that went up in smoke and I sent them back to Castle for repair and paid a little extra to upgrade to Mamba Max Pros. I guess we'll have to see how those work. FYI, Castle has a very generous warranty/repair policy and I wish the other manufactures followed suit. If you blow up an ESC and send it in (outside of warranty), they will send you another for $50. Great service too. You may have to wait on the phone for a while to get somebody but they will talk to you all day if needed. On a similar note, my Novak stuff has been very reliable but the one time I did have a problem their customer service sucked chocolate salty balls. I had a motor go bad right out of the box (admittedly, the box sat for over 6 months) and Novak wanted more to fix it than it would cost to go to their website and buy a refurbed one. It actually was cheaper to buy another than have them fix mine....

???E-Racer

iTrader: (3)

Hum i was the only one on the whole thread who recommnded the Team Checkpoint brushless motors.
Wonder why people dont like them much anymore.
Their brushed motors were the fastest motors money could buy.
I was thinking thier brushless motors were the same, speed, tourqey,
all the above.

2wdMod

iTrader: (42)

Kris, I totally agree on Tekins aproach being the most ethical.It's been nice to be able to just plug in the hot wire and in a couple minutes have the most current firmware on the esc. BUT I also agree with some others.This is already getting WAY out of hand AGAIN. I think the correct aproach is to limit the timing capabilities of the speedo for stock classes.I beleive this for 1 reason.Look how fast stock has become in the last year with a 17.5.NOBODY thought the speeds we are getting out of a "stock" motor were possible 2 years ago when ROAR made BL legal for stock classes. Well even if we switch to 21.5 power, how long do you think it will take for the timing and boost to make a 21.5 stock class just as fast or even faster than the class was when we first started running BL 17.5's in stock? The solution isnt to spec another motor it's to limit speed control timing and take the adjustable timing off the motor.It's stock. It has ALWAYS been a class with fixed timing rules to help keep things in check until BL power and for some reason ROAR left the timing specs as open as can be.At the time I beleive it was to make sure the BL set-ups could compete with the brushed stockers that were being run at the time.Well here we sit 2 years later and a brushed stocker cant hold a candle to a 17.5 system with a timing advance speedo.So Now it's time to reel it back in, and since in other forms of racing they seem to have no quams about putting limitations on equipment for the good of the class, I think the most reasonable solution would be to follow that format to help get things back under control.

K_King

iTrader: (47)

Tekin and the Firewire is definitely a good thing, however isnt it somewhat limited by the tech inside the actual ESC itself?