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Old 02-02-2014, 09:19 AM   #13591
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Whats up with the shock o rings not being available again till April?? Any one know of a place that has them in stock that's not overseas?
Not the lowest price, but TSR orings are very good and better to have some than none I guess...
http://www.tsrproducts.com/index.php...s100003-c.html
They have a race spec but the trade off for it's super slippery action is thaf it doesn't seal as well as club spec. From my experience with my B44, TSR was slickeryer and sealed better than stock orings and last forever.
Have only had them in the Durango for one race day but they are the same orings so I would think the outcome should be the same.
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:19 PM   #13592
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Whats up with the shock o rings not being available again till April?? Any one know of a place that has them in stock that's not overseas?
..
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:02 PM   #13593
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..

Thanks for the link. The DEX210 is not on the list. Will they still work? Different part # also.
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:52 PM   #13594
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I haven't heard much on that servo. Seen it online and a few people that said it is great and I think one that said it burnt up in a short amount of time. But that's what you could expect from a $17 servo. Spend $100+ on a servo and you expect no problems.
But at $17 its not a big loss if it doesn't work long and if it does, that's a huge win because performance does look good. Maybe buy 2 to be safe at that price.

What online stores are in or near your country?

Your servo motor died because you don't have your radio's end points set correctly and the servo is trying to push the steering further than mechanically possible (probably it) or your car hit something and the force transfered from the wheels to the servo breaking teeth on the gears.
You would hear a crunchy sound though if it was the gears and the heat you are describing sounds like the servo motor is the problem.
Justo find out what the problem with the servo was...

The two wires powering the motor melt together... That's why was some smoke... It seems that they where getting hot and were touching together and with the heat... BOOM!

Anyway... Hope to not have the same problem with the Solar
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:56 PM   #13595
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Just wanting to know what pistons and oils people are using in their DEX210's.
I am racing outdoors and on a medium level grip with medium sized jumps and was looking for some help.
Thank you.

Cheese
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:24 PM   #13596
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Justo find out what the problem with the servo was...

The two wires powering the motor melt together... That's why was some smoke... It seems that they where getting hot and were touching together and with the heat... BOOM!

Anyway... Hope to not have the same problem with the Solar
When you install the servo, plug it in and on your radio put the sub-trim and trim at zero. Steering dual rate at 100. Put servo horn on so it is a 90 angle to the steering link or as close as you can get it.
Put the buggy on a stand out something to lift it off the table.
Now get your tires pointing straight with sub-trim adjustment.

Now go to the end point adjustment on your radio. Turn the wheel all the way left, increase epa (end point adjustment) until the tires will not go any farther. Still holding the wheel to the left slowly reduce epa until you can not hear the servo buzz.
Do the same steering to the right now.

That sets the farthest point that your radio can tell the servo to turn the wheels. If you don't set that, your servo may be trying to push the steering link farther than it can possibly go and that can burn up the servo motor.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:41 PM   #13597
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When you install the servo, plug it in and on your radio put the sub-trim and trim at zero. Steering dual rate at 100. Put servo horn on so it is a 90 angle to the steering link or as close as you can get it.
Put the buggy on a stand out something to lift it off the table.
Now get your tires pointing straight with sub-trim adjustment.

Now go to the end point adjustment on your radio. Turn the wheel all the way left, increase epa (end point adjustment) until the tires will not go any farther. Still holding the wheel to the left slowly reduce epa until you can not hear the servo buzz.
Do the same steering to the right now.

That sets the farthest point that your radio can tell the servo to turn the wheels. If you don't set that, your servo may be trying to push the steering link farther than it can possibly go and that can burn up the servo motor.
....aaand, keep it out of large bodies of water...
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:15 PM   #13598
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....aaand, keep it out of large bodies of water...
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:31 PM   #13599
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Ha ha I learnt that the hard way lol

I think the radio from the rtr is very humble... I didn't see anything to set the endpoints :/
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:39 PM   #13600
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Thanks for the link. The DEX210 is not on the list. Will they still work? Different part # also.
Dex210 is on their list, I have ordered 3 times for different cars at different times. Last week was the last order. And what I do is order Pro and Club and use 1 of each in the shocks. Use the Pro in the upper position and the Club in the lower.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:57 AM   #13601
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Just wanting to know what pistons and oils people are using in their DEX210's.
I am racing outdoors and on a medium level grip with medium sized jumps and was looking for some help.
Thank you.

Cheese
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/durango...ch20120916.pdf
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:40 AM   #13602
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Originally Posted by stinky cheese View Post
Just wanting to know what pistons and oils people are using in their DEX210's.
I am racing outdoors and on a medium level grip with medium sized jumps and was looking for some help.
Thank you.

Cheese
Normally I like running a 5.3 ratio.
27wt losi 4x1.3 up front and 25wt losi 3x1.5 in the rear. If the back of the car is still bottoming you can either swap to 4x1.3 or (2x1.1*2x1.5) to give more bottoming resistance. Its still the same ratio, but more smaller holes will give you more pack.
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Old 02-03-2014, 08:46 AM   #13603
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I never ever run a larger piston hole area in the front over the rear. As a result I also never ever run a thicker or even the same weight oil in the front over the rear. Shock pack is not only determined by oil weight and piston hole area, it is also determined by the speed of the oil through those holes. A front shock is mounted further inwards on the arm than the rear shock. As a result for the same amount of wheel travel, a front shock moves less and has a slower velocity of fluid through the piston holes. That means that even if the front and rear shocks have the exact same pistons, the front shocks will have less pack. In order for them to have equal pack, the front piston needs to have less hole area. Less hole area will require a thinner oil to maintain the same effective dampening.

I see a lot of people running thicker oil in front than rear. They are trying to accomplish the same end goal but the problem of unequal pack still remains and hasn't been addressed. Once you get this balanced out along with balanced spring rates, the difference in handling is amazing.
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Old 02-03-2014, 10:01 AM   #13604
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That is a wet low bite setup that you posted.
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Old 02-03-2014, 12:24 PM   #13605
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I never ever run a larger piston hole area in the front over the rear. As a result I also never ever run a thicker or even the same weight oil in the front over the rear. Shock pack is not only determined by oil weight and piston hole area, it is also determined by the speed of the oil through those holes. A front shock is mounted further inwards on the arm than the rear shock. As a result for the same amount of wheel travel, a front shock moves less and has a slower velocity of fluid through the piston holes. That means that even if the front and rear shocks have the exact same pistons, the front shocks will have less pack. In order for them to have equal pack, the front piston needs to have less hole area. Less hole area will require a thinner oil to maintain the same effective dampening.

I see a lot of people running thicker oil in front than rear. They are trying to accomplish the same end goal but the problem of unequal pack still remains and hasn't been addressed. Once you get this balanced out along with balanced spring rates, the difference in handling is amazing.
From my understanding, less hole area creates more pack because only so much oil can flow thru a given area. Thinner oil becomes turbulent faster and thus packs quicker than thicker oil which requires more velocity before it packs. However, thicker oil offers more initial resistance thus slowing the movement, but we are talking about pack, as when the shock shaft feels like it almost stops (pack).

I understand your point about leverage on the arm and slower shaft movement. I haven't seen too many cases where you want the front oil to be lighter than the rear. I understand your pack theory, but shock oil is more about controlling weight transfer.

Perhaps you can post the oil and piston combinations you are using, so we can test it out. I am always looking forward to learning or trying new theories or setups. Its all a learning process.

The velocity in which the oil travels thru the oil is in direct relation to hole size, number of holes and fluid viscosity. You have to address the shock in two instances. Laminar (weight transfer) and turbulent flow (pack)

From my understanding shock oil should be used to control weight transfer.. NOT PACK. Hole size and number of holes controls pack. Normally you want the front shock to have either equal or slightly heavier oil than the rear. Normally I prefer slightly heavier in the front, which allows it to compress slower under braking so that the front doesn't dive too much and you end up over steering entering the turn and have the back of the car compress faster under power to give you grip on exit. If you run thinner oil and smaller hole area, what happens is your transfer is quick then you get an abrupt stop cause it packs, and either you loose steering if the surface is low bite and push or wipe if it is high bite depending conditions. But at the same time your car should be balanced and the differences between the front and rear oil should not be that much otherwise you will have a car that is unbalanced thru the turn giving you either a hooking affect or mid-corner push. On extreme low bite conditions where I can't get enough steering, I may opt to use the same oil weight and piston area front and rear to get more weight in the front. I have seen some setups from the pro where they use super heavy oil like 60wt in the front on carpet and adjust hole sizes accordingly, but from watching the videos you can see they come in so HOT into the corner and brake, and they go heavy to stop the front from diving too fast.

There are several ways to setup a shock. Statically, you can have 50wt oil and 6x1.2 holes vs 30wt oil 2x1.6 and it may feel statically the same, but normally you will find thru testing that smooth speed and high grip tracks or carpet tracks favor heavier oils, while bumpier clay or dirt tracks favor lighter oils. The higher the speeds, the thicker the oil, That's why touring cars run heavier weight oils and buggies run lighter.

Normally in my 2WD, I prefer to run the same piston area. In my 4WD, depending on track either same piston and heavier oil or less hole area in the front and same oil for more pack cause the 4WD is more nose heavy.

Back to piston area. Obviously more holes or bigger area less pack. But here is the thing. Given the same piston area. let say approx ratio 5.3-5.4
3x1.5 or 4x 1.3 or 5x1.2 or (3x1.0+3x1.1) or (2x1.1+2x1.5) all have the area, however each will react differently. Think of it like this, bigger holes allow more flow before its threshold is reached, while smaller holes restrict the flow faster. Larger and less holes will pack later in the stroke, and more smaller holes will back earlier in the stroke. Bumpy tracks favor a larger hole setup, smooth tracks favor a smaller hole setup. More holes equals more turbulence. If the track is really bumpy try the 3x1.5; smooth try 4x1.3 or 5x1.2.

For the DEX210: Sometimes you need to find something in between like the 1.1 and 1.5 split holes to give you good bump handling but it has small holes to give you the pack when needed on larger jumps. In the rear, try 25 or 27wt with the 2x1.1 and 2x1.5 and tell me how you like it. I think its the best piston setup for most conditions. For the front I use 27 or 30wt, and either 3x1.5 or 4x1.2. Mind you temperature will affect the oils, so hot days go heavier all the way around.

Heavier shock oil will make the shock pack later in the stroke as thicker oil requires a higher piston velocity to create pack. Lighter shock oil requires less velocity to pack. That's why sometimes when you go higher shock oil, and you still bottom out and you are left scratching your head. Instead you should have went lighter oil which packs earlier or use less piston hole area. Too light of an oil, and too many small holes and the pack my occur in 1/3 of shock stroke and you end up bouncing more than damping. There is a whole science around shocks. I just use the hole size to adjust where in the stroke I want the pack to occur. You can try the combinations I listed above or use one of the setups that the pros use. But in real world applications, its better to follow a suspension package that the pros use as they have spend the time and effort to figure all this science out.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not here prove or disprove a theory. The forum is about sharing information and learning from each other. And we all get better by sharing what we know, and the only way to move forward is to try new ideas. Heck I had a whole debate about LRC vs HRC on low bite tracks. Then we when out and tested it. You know what. HRC drifts more but controlled. Its harder to lose the back end. LRC, you have more traction but when you start to lose it, you really lose it in a corner.
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