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Old 09-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #7561
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Dark blue front and light blue rear. They are good for a starting point, but most wind up one or two rates softer in the front and one or two rates firmer in the rear.
I am going to be running on carpet and was given a setup from a friend and wanted to doublecheck that my used buggy came with stock springs.
the suggested setup for our track was

  • stock springs,stock 6 hole pistons,32.5 oil in R,35wt in front, MM3 configuration.. MM4 was pushy while accellerating out of corners.
  • 20* caster in the front end..
any thoughts?? I value and trust his opinions but wanted to see how others setups were comparing.
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:03 PM   #7562
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32/69 seems overgeared to me. Try a 75 pinion also, the larger spur gear, even with the same ratio as a smaller spur, will generate more torque due to it having more leverage.

First, make sure it's not your diff slipping. Then adjust your slipper on the track, not on the bench (after all you don't race on the bench, at least not with cars anyway ) I try to have someone in pit lane with a slipper wrench to tighten/loosen if needed before a race, especially if track conditions change though the night. And once you're close, small adjustments make a big difference- a 1/4 or even an 1/8 of a turn can be all you need. If you can't get it right on the track, maybe try a new spring. There have been some people who couldn't get it tight enough, but it sounds like yours is getting tight enough, just not getting fine tuned where you want it.
Diffs not slipping. Thanks for the info though. I start on the bench and fine tune on the track. As far as fine tuning, I always make small adjustments. I never go more than an 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time just for that reason. The whole reason I asked the question in the first place was because I have built many a diff and slipper, and have never had it change on me so drastically from just about perfect one day to crazy tight the next. Thought maybe there was a known issue or fix someone was aware of.

Are the AE pads acceptable? Is there a particular part number I should be using? I did not use the V2 parts, just the standard b4 slipper pads. Maybe I should just put on the stock pads? Once again thanks for all the help.
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:01 PM   #7563
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Diffs not slipping. Thanks for the info though. I start on the bench and fine tune on the track. As far as fine tuning, I always make small adjustments. I never go more than an 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time just for that reason. The whole reason I asked the question in the first place was because I have built many a diff and slipper, and have never had it change on me so drastically from just about perfect one day to crazy tight the next. Thought maybe there was a known issue or fix someone was aware of.

Are the AE pads acceptable? Is there a particular part number I should be using? I did not use the V2 parts, just the standard b4 slipper pads. Maybe I should just put on the stock pads? Once again thanks for all the help.
I am curious about the AE pads as well. The 210 pads are a tick smaller, as i noticed when I had to squeeze the AE pads in my 210 spur.They are close, but not exact, maybe one of them isn't seated all the way?
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:29 PM   #7564
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I am curious about the AE pads as well. The 210 pads are a tick smaller, as i noticed when I had to squeeze the AE pads in my 210 spur.They are close, but not exact, maybe one of them isn't seated all the way?
That could be it. The AE pads need to be sanded down a bit around the edges to fit nicely.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:53 PM   #7565
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That could be it. The AE pads need to be sanded down a bit around the edges to fit nicely.
I had a "mixed" experience with the AE pads on TD spurs. Some fit snug with no trimming and some needed to be cut.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #7566
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I use Garodisc pads for my 210 without issues.. Associated pads are too thin I believe.

I also finally got around to installing my Tresrey hubs and motor plate. Some very nice pieces . Theres a lot of nice things on my buggy.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:01 PM   #7567
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I had a "mixed" experience with the AE pads on TD spurs. Some fit snug with no trimming and some needed to be cut.
Alex, I have a new red clay indoor track opening Friday. Just like Motorama .I can't wait.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #7568
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Alex, I have a new red clay indoor track opening Friday. Just like Motorama .I can't wait.
Sweet. Take some video or pics.

I've got my 210 back together as well. Have the +8 carbon chassis, along with Kyosho front hexes. Getting another Speed Passion in a few days.

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I use Garodisc pads for my 210 without issues.. Associated pads are too thin I believe.

I also finally got around to installing my Tresrey hubs and motor plate. Some very nice pieces . Theres a lot of nice things on my buggy.
The AE pads definitely are thinner, but they didn't seem to cause any issues. I have Marcus's Garodisc's on my DEX410. Love them to death. Can acutally let the slipper slip.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:49 PM   #7569
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32/69 seems overgeared to me. Try a 75 pinion also, the larger spur gear, even with the same ratio as a smaller spur, will generate more torque due to it having more leverage.
No, one cannot divorce the spur gear from the pinion, and say the bigger spur generates more torque. The spur gear has to be viewed in relation to the pinion gear used.

By definition, Gear Ratio, Torque Ratio, and Mechanical Advantage are all equal (i.e. the gear ratio is the torque ratio is the mechanical advantage). If two different pinion/spur combinations achieve the same gear ratio, they have the same torque ratio.

There may be reasons to prefer achieving a given gear ratio with larger gears. More teeth being engaged at any given time, the larger gears may run smoother. Or longer gear life because wear is being distributed over more teeth.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:49 PM   #7570
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Regarding turnbuckles and ball cups...

The Lunsford package seems to be popular, but what are some of the other options?

Losi 22 cups are 4.8mm as well as the Kyosho. Would i need to change out the turnbuckles as well? Both options seem to have shorter cups, especially compared to the stock rear 210 cups with the elbow shape. Would the stock turnbuckles be long enough?

The Losi cups are in stock at my local shop. Anyone tried these?

I am not going to change the stock ones unless they start popping off like so many have. Just want to be ready if/when it happens.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:01 AM   #7571
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:52 AM   #7572
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Originally Posted by parallelfish View Post
No, one cannot divorce the spur gear from the pinion, and say the bigger spur generates more torque. The spur gear has to be viewed in relation to the pinion gear used.

By definition, Gear Ratio, Torque Ratio, and Mechanical Advantage are all equal (i.e. the gear ratio is the torque ratio is the mechanical advantage). If two different pinion/spur combinations achieve the same gear ratio, they have the same torque ratio.

There may be reasons to prefer achieving a given gear ratio with larger gears. More teeth being engaged at any given time, the larger gears may run smoother. Or longer gear life because wear is being distributed over more teeth.
And then..........
Wow such clarification offers such confusion. I couldn't agree more with you definition of ratios and leverage, but truly you should put your theory on the dirt and come back and report.

On a direct drive car such as 1/10 pan cars, 1/12 pan cars, ratios are much simpler, roll out can be calculated to achieve a goal. Variables still effect the end result, chassis weight, battery type and c rating, speedo setup, tire size, even the wire to the motor in length and size(gauge).
You add all those variables, then you add dirt, out of balance tires, a geared transmission, and simply enough traction, changes with one tooth on a 48p gear.
At Motorama 2011 my good friend was running 17.5 SCT, he complained all day he's getting walked on the straight. He kept gearing, gearing the way the faster guy was gearing, by adding teeth to the pinion, to reach the ratio, finally he couldn't move the motor any farther. He finally listened to me in the last round to change the spur to a smaller, while almost retaining the same pinion, he went on the track, and locked in Tq. He said, he couldn't believe the difference the way the truck drove, handle, and felt.

Also running such small spur gears is for motor movement. This is a popular tuning tool especially with a mid motor car. The smaller the spur, the farther the motor moves to the rear of the car, and also creates a pendulum effect on the layshaft, making a smoother on and off throttle transition which makes driving seem more fluid.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:24 AM   #7573
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And then..........
Wow such clarification offers such confusion. I couldn't agree more with you definition of ratios and leverage, but truly you should put your theory on the dirt and come back and report.

On a direct drive car such as 1/10 pan cars, 1/12 pan cars, ratios are much simpler, roll out can be calculated to achieve a goal. Variables still effect the end result, chassis weight, battery type and c rating, speedo setup, tire size, even the wire to the motor in length and size(gauge).
You add all those variables, then you add dirt, out of balance tires, a geared transmission, and simply enough traction, changes with one tooth on a 48p gear.
At Motorama 2011 my good friend was running 17.5 SCT, he complained all day he's getting walked on the straight. He kept gearing, gearing the way the faster guy was gearing, by adding teeth to the pinion, to reach the ratio, finally he couldn't move the motor any farther. He finally listened to me in the last round to change the spur to a smaller, while almost retaining the same pinion, he went on the track, and locked in Tq. He said, he couldn't believe the difference the way the truck drove, handle, and felt.

Also running such small spur gears is for motor movement. This is a popular tuning tool especially with a mid motor car. The smaller the spur, the farther the motor moves to the rear of the car, and also creates a pendulum effect on the layshaft, making a smoother on and off throttle transition which makes driving seem more fluid.
Do not disagree at all. But you are taking issue with something that I did not imply.

I was addressing the notion that the same gear ratio, achieved via different spur gear sizes, can produce different torque ratios (as was stated in the previous post). I believe that I did state that there may be other reasons for preferring the use of larger gears, and cited a couple of examples.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:54 AM   #7574
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I was addressing the notion that the same gear ratio, achieved via different spur gear sizes, can produce different torque ratios (as was stated in the previous post). I believe that I did state that there may be other reasons for preferring the use of larger gears, and cited a couple of examples.
Keeping the same ratio with different spur sizes does make a difference, mainly because you are moving the motor fore / aft. To say changing the size of the spur alone, while retaining the the ratio will make a difference on how the motor operates (torque / rpm) I believe the gains are pretty slim. Only way to prove it is on a dyno. I believe when Jonny5 said leverage, he meant moving the motor back..

Also Smaller spurs really do not reduce rotating mass as you have to change to a heavier "alloy" pinions. Not much gain there.

What are your thoughts? My .02.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #7575
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Looks like a picked the wrong time to ask about turnbuckles.
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