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Old 01-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #3376
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Originally Posted by Autocratic View Post
Edit: Setup sheet PDF is too big. If anyone would like to try it PM me your email.

So today I did some testing on a fresh setup

-1/8" front toe out
-0 front camber
-30 caster
-full inline axle
-3mm bump steer
-Upper camber links level
-25wt oil
-1.2/1.3 pistons

-3.5 rear toe in
-1 rear camber
-Swapped rear hubs so ballstuds face forward
-Rear hub all the way back in arm
-Driveshafts level
-20wt oil
1.2/1.3 pistons

-MM4
-Trinity D3 6.5 +2 marks on timing
-81 JConcepts AE spur/25 pinion
-No ESC timing
-Started the day on kit springs f/r
-Ended with Losi Orange/Losi Grey
-Made custom foam inserts to move the battery around in different places

On a medium bite track that gets dusty once try, I think I have something going here.

-Mid motor the buggy jumps soo much better than rear motor.
-Throttle/brake in the air is more reactive when adjusting flight.
-I can put down the power very well given the motor turn. Mid motor doesn't allow the buggy to wheelie as easy.
-With my current setup, the car hardly bottoms out when jumping, and is very level over a lot of big dips on the track that most cars bottom on.
-The car has a lot of steering. Almost too much, but it will go where you want it.

Things I'd like to change:
-Front/rear end I want more reactive to bumpy parts
-Would like the rear-end shocks to soak-up bumps and whoop sections rather than dancing
-Need slightly more rear-end grip
-Need less weight transfer to the front under drag & voluntary braking

Things I would like to try:
-Heavier oil all around
-Front and/or rear sway bar
-Lower roll resistance rear
-Higher roll resistance front

Marcus, You PM'ed me some settings to start with, and would love some input from you. I have an idea on how to change the four things above with a few adjustments, but need some clarification since I have your pistons.

***Also, I need a readily available gear or ball diff replacement. My current diff feels like it's built with rocks (long story), but has everything to do with me leaving a certain part out during rebuild.

-Auto

Full inline will give the most aggressive steering per Durangos tuning info below. Try going back to trailing.
http://www.team-durango.com/blog/201...-insert-guide/

You running two stage pistons? How may holes? Oil seems really light.

Could also go to RM3 like most of us....would better suit "a medium bite track that gets dusty"
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #3377
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Is there anyway to see the front shock tower mounted? I'm interested to see the position of the front inner camber links. Does it change their length and angle?
I haven't seen the Diggity front tower mounted up, but the one I had looked very similar as far as the link mount, and it changed the angle too severely for my taste, and I ditched it for this one..
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:38 PM   #3378
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Full inline will give the most aggressive steering per Durangos tuning info below. Try going back to trailing.
http://www.team-durango.com/blog/201...-insert-guide/

You running two stage pistons? How may holes? Oil seems really light.
2 stage pistons pack differently than single stage , you use lighter fluid which aids in handling over the small bumps but give you more pack on the big stuff. you cannot tune them like single stage, especially on the bench!

sway bars would be great for my setup too i cant seem to find a good balance with it its just to edgy in the front. is there a kit out yet?
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #3379
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Originally Posted by kwiksi View Post
Full inline will give the most aggressive steering per Durangos tuning info below. Try going back to trailing.
http://www.team-durango.com/blog/201...-insert-guide/

You running two stage pistons? How may holes? Oil seems really light.

Could also go to RM3 like most of us....would better suit "a medium bite track that gets dusty"
I forgot to add that. Running 6 hole.

I switched from RM3 to MM4 because I didn't like the way RM drove. Also, the 210 is really built to be a MM buggy, and I want to be able to take full advantage of its options.

I'll try trailing. Should I move one at a time or start at full trailing?

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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
2 stage pistons pack differently than single stage , you use lighter fluid which aids in handling over the small bumps but give you more pack on the big stuff. you cannot tune them like single stage, especially on the bench!

sway bars would be great for my setup too i cant seem to find a good balance with it its just to edgy in the front. is there a kit out yet?
This should work with all the smaller open ball cups that came with the kit. I'll know more tomorrow when it gets here. I'll post up pictures. Probably start with the smallest on each end.

I ordered the last kit they had in stock. Sorry :P

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...i-Roll-Bar-Set

Marcus,

You have any ideas on my setup and what I could change?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:01 PM   #3380
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Default 210

If anyone is interested I have this 210 for sale $240.00 shipped.

DEX210 Roller 10 packs old never raced
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:46 PM   #3381
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I forgot to add that. Running 6 hole.

I switched from RM3 to MM4 because I didn't like the way RM drove. Also, the 210 is really built to be a MM buggy, and I want to be able to take full advantage of its options.

I'll try trailing. Should I move one at a time or start at full trailing?



This should work with all the smaller open ball cups that came with the kit. I'll know more tomorrow when it gets here. I'll post up pictures. Probably start with the smallest on each end.

I ordered the last kit they had in stock. Sorry :P

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...i-Roll-Bar-Set

Marcus,

You have any ideas on my setup and what I could change?

I would go straight to full trailing (4mm), that way if a change is going to happen, you'll know for sure. If you only go 1mm the first time, you may not even feel a difference....go full first, then back off a little at a time if you feel the need.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:43 PM   #3382
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HUGE changes to the buggy tonight fellas. I think at least 50% of the pushing issue with this car are geometry problems with the front end due to bump steer and ackerman issues which result in the front tires scrubbing rather than gripping.

Testing and details tomorrow.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:48 PM   #3383
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HUGE changes to the buggy tonight fellas. I think at least 50% of the pushing issue with this car are geometry problems with the front end due to bump steer and ackerman issues which result in the front tires scrubbing rather than gripping.

Testing and details tomorrow.
I would agree with that, my car became much more controllable when I added 2mm to 4mm for a total of 6mm to the outside steering link ballstud..my car would "bump steer" when landing from a jump...let us know what you find...
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #3384
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HUGE changes to the buggy tonight fellas. I think at least 50% of the pushing issue with this car are geometry problems with the front end due to bump steer and ackerman issues which result in the front tires scrubbing rather than gripping.

Testing and details tomorrow.
funny, i have entirely too much steering everywhere!! trying to tame it down. turned my servo speed down and gained almost 2sec a lap immediately!!
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #3385
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funny, i have entirely too much steering everywhere!! trying to tame it down. turned my servo speed down and gained almost 2sec a lap immediately!!
I agree once again, I picked up a slower servo, and run my epa @ about 80%, much better, but I still have a tick of on power push in the real tighties though..
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:58 PM   #3386
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I agree once again, I picked up a slower servo, and run my epa @ about 80%...I still have a tick of on power push in the real tighties though..
I cannot make my car push anywhere, i have 5mm of front Roll center shims and it still grabs on entry, toe in helps a little but not enough, ribbed tires on hardpack clay=same. Right now i am running -2 trailing, 0 was insane! on the outside track in my vids the car is prettty good and will push on entry but has entirely too much on power steering. Im going to try the 1.5 rear block but with RM4 i think its just going to wheelie more than it already does. I think sway bars will do the trick but has anyone actually looked at the front sway bar situation??? it looks like the bar will almost be straight due to where the "ball" is molded on the arms.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:04 PM   #3387
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, i have 5mm of front Roll center shims and it still grabs on entry,.
Well of course it does.. 5mm of roll center shims will lower the hell out of the front roll center. Your front end will be diving like mad all over the place. Off power your car's front end will over-roll, and then it will push on-power. That would be an unbalanced setup, and sounds like it would be a handfull to drive.

If you want less bite in the front, you need to raise the roll center in the front by reducing washers under the inner ball studs. It will make the car develop less overall traction, but responsiveness will increase in the lower speed sections of the track..
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:09 PM   #3388
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Wait, how does raising the the front inner ballstud lower the front roll center? That just doesn't make any sense.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:37 PM   #3389
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Wait, how does raising the the front inner ballstud lower the front roll center? That just doesn't make any sense.
Sure it does, if you understand how roll center works. I don't have the energy to explain it at detail at the moment, but here is some great reading material that explains it really well:..

http://users.telenet.be/elvo/3/3.html
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:52 PM   #3390
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Well of course it does.. 5mm of roll center shims will lower the hell out of the front roll center. Your front end will be diving like mad all over the place. Off power your car's front end will over-roll, and then it will push on-power. That would be an unbalanced setup, and sounds like it would be a handfull to drive.

If you want less bite in the front, you need to raise the roll center in the front by reducing washers under the inner ball studs. It will make the car develop less overall traction, but responsiveness will increase in the lower speed sections of the track..
that is true but it takes initial steering away while gaining mid and exit steering, takes the adge off, we are forced to do this with the SC10 4x4 because of the insane amount of steering they have. its always a trade off with Roll centers its not the same effect throughout the turn. dont you think that is why the standard mid setups use more RC shims than RM for that reason? the higher i went the more it helped but naturally it was gaining mid steering at the same time. Like you just said raising the RC increases responsiveness which is what i dont want in the low speed sections i have too much right now so i added washers to lower the RC and decrease low speed sensitivity. dont forget that it also depends on where the factory decided to start from!
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