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Old 01-04-2017, 03:43 PM   #18781
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(((((Talking to the AE B6 guys the gullwing setup (I say setup as its not just the a-arms you are changing) seems to smooth the steering response out versus the flat setup. Maybe the full geometry change other than just the a-arms is where this comes from.

I run gullwings there now since that is the stock b6 setup and I like the feel.))))

(((((Any perceived difference would be the result of a slight change of shock location in height and width. With the gull wing, the proper thing to do is have a slightly wider front tower to keep the shock angle equivalent. AE was smart enough to realize this. When Durango copied the B4 geometry, they integrated in the gull wing shape but completely overlooked this.)))))


That's exactly what I was saying. Durango, instead of taking advantage of the design, claimed clearance increases and my favorite of all time, aerodynamic advantages. Lol.

I hadn't thought about the B4 influence with this car. Funny how the B4 was the gold standard for many manufacturers. Tamiya was influenced as well with their 201/211 series.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:06 PM   #18782
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The prototype cars that ultimately became the 210 were nothing more than custom made chassis and gearboxes with B4 suspensions on them. The 22 had just come out and it had the gull wing arms. Durango decided to copy them so they made theirs gull wing too but more extreme in bend. Durango also copied the 22's new big bore shocks and of course the rear and mid option in the same car. They kept the same B4 geometry shock tower. Overlay a B4 tower on a 210's. The holes all line up. When they went to the straight arms, they restored the original B4 based geometry. Durango's shocks may be the same overall extended length as the Associated but when compressed they don't get as short, hence our problem with a lack up suspension up travel. Lot's of people tried these cars and hated them. No doubt as a result of this issue which no one picked up on. Then they only made the problem worse with the V2. The car is a combination of 22 and B4 with a touch of creative license along the way such as inserts to adjust caster and toe and the single gearbox for any orientation, the true jewel of the car in my opinion. Unfortunately that creative license wasn't always thoroughly thought out. Look where the company is now.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:04 PM   #18783
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Do the 23mm stroke shocks fix this issue? Or is the v1 shock tower a must? 2 extra mm of travel is quite a bit. Part number 230004
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:28 AM   #18784
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No, actually they do make it worser, as the problem is the lack of max uptravel.
The v1 and v2 shock towers share te exactly same geometry, the only changes on the v2 tower is, that it is leaning a bit to the rear, to get easyer to the chamber ball studs.
I will try to use the 21.5 shocks with the gull wing v1 arms, as we are not in the need of that much droop anymore on those modern plain high bite tracks...
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:16 AM   #18785
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Interesting history. To he honest I had read up on them a little but got sidetracked on the 410 story and never went back to finish! Lol. What keeps all of you coming back to these cars? I'm enjoying the diversity and messing around with something different. You would have thought they would have fixed the up travel issue by the V3. Do they not consider it an issue?
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:36 AM   #18786
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The release of v3 is actually just a v2 with the new parts, like at the 210f and the 410v5 rear end uses, put into the kit box, no changes in geometry, or anything else!
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:34 AM   #18787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
Interesting history. To he honest I had read up on them a little but got sidetracked on the 410 story and never went back to finish! Lol. What keeps all of you coming back to these cars? I'm enjoying the diversity and messing around with something different. You would have thought they would have fixed the up travel issue by the V3. Do they not consider it an issue?
For me I came back to this car because it is one I already had built, and I have a ton of spares left over. But mainly because the thing just handled so well when I raced it. I'm not a good driver by any means but on some days I could actually keep up with the fast guys in my cheap little Dex210 and I loved that feeling. I've driven other cars that were buttery smooth too like the AE B4 but in the end I loved the dex210's durability and the fact that it looked cool just sitting still lol. Especially now with a full set of steel screws where that silver really adds a nice sheen to the whole package.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:58 AM   #18788
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when I had mine I liked some of the setup options it had. And at the time it was one of the few that ran metric hardware. I also liked something alittle different. The problem was that durango for whatever reason decided that racing was just not that important to them and ran with the whole no race team / pocket the savings idea apparently.

Shame as there are some good stuff there. To be honest the only reason i got way from the vehicle was more of a frustration decision than anything else with how they were doing stuff. Not an issue with the vehicles handling.

The remaining durango I have the dex410v5 still is going strong and does what I want it to against the current 1/10 4wd competition which looks like a spec field of hot bodies d413s with a sprinkle of Xray XB4s and an occasional B44.3 . In comparison to those vehicles, don't feel like I am giving up anything to them performance wise.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:33 AM   #18789
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This explains some things. It looks like the problem may not be at Durango but rather due to a lack of money at Hobbico.

http://newschannel20.com/news/local/...ership-program
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:42 AM   #18790
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Trying to remedy this front suspension issue. Anybody have a b44.2 front shock tower to compare. In photos it looks to be the right width and possibly a little taller??
If so, problem solved, if not, we just need to find a slightly taller shock tower with similar width they holes can be drilled to fit...
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:06 AM   #18791
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I have one. I can check it but I don't see how it'll work. I'd like to go back to vintage styles where you'd see multiple shock height options on one tower. Basically design a proper tower for use with V1 shocks but that has hole options for gull wing and straight arms. I still maintain that the problem will still be the shocks themselves.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:40 AM   #18792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micholix View Post
No, actually they do make it worser, as the problem is the lack of max uptravel.
The v1 and v2 shock towers share te exactly same geometry, the only changes on the v2 tower is, that it is leaning a bit to the rear, to get easyer to the chamber ball studs.
I will try to use the 21.5 shocks with the gull wing v1 arms, as we are not in the need of that much droop anymore on those modern plain high bite tracks...
The V1 arms and 21.5 shock bodies may be the ticket. Somebody also said the B5 arms work. They have a slight gull wing. May work as well. No droop screws though.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:44 AM   #18793
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I still have my DEX210, and I still have the stadium truck too the DEST210.
The truck I have is mid motor but the buggy is rear motor.

I ran these until Durango dropped the ball and all their drivers left like Ryan Lutz etc..then I went back to Losi and AE stuff. I won quite a few races and was done with the DEST210 truck anyway.
I was getting 2nd and 3rd place with the DEX210 buggy.
The B6D is fantastic I was impressed with the way the car drove and it was fun to build.
I'm running Losi stuff offroad and Associated stuff on Dirt Oval, the current AE stuff is competitive against custom works cars if setup correctly. Team Losi Racing stuff is very durable offroad.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:35 AM   #18794
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I have one. I can check it but I don't see how it'll work. I'd like to go back to vintage styles where you'd see multiple shock height options on one tower. Basically design a proper tower for use with V1 shocks but that has hole options for gull wing and straight arms. I still maintain that the problem will still be the shocks themselves.
Thanks Fred. I just hoping to get a few more millimeters of up travel.
I also cut a 2 mm piece off an old battery brace and going to make a spacer between the bulkheads and see if that works.
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:58 AM   #18795
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Agreed on the AE cars. I mean they were the first, everyone else has just been following ever since. Part of my RC10 collection includes all the B4 series cars. Im only missing a few of the RTR releases. Anyway, it's fun sometimes to grab a B4 Team Car, B4 Factory Team Car and then a B4.1 World's; run them back to back and actually feel the improvements. Since Fred mentioned it, I broke out a couple and started looking more closely at the DEX210V1.

Ill be damned but you're right. The geometry matches pretty closely. It's pretty obvious now that they used the R&D of Associated to ensure the DEX210 would perform when first released.

I had thought that the guys who started Durango, their bread and butter was not 2wd buggy. They were 4wd guys so the 410 was actually their pride and joy. On the flip side, for Associated, they have always been known for their 2wd buggies. I mean, I have the first B44 car... and it's not really an Associated car lol.

When looking at Durango's success, most of it was in Europe. Were they ever big here? I honestly don't remember seeing them. Ever. As an AE guy I was always racing against Losi and Kyosho cars, with an occasional Schumacher/Traxxas/Tamiya thrown in here and there.
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