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Old 03-22-2016, 11:35 AM   #17521
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Fredswain: could you give some insight on rear shocks being in front or behind the rear shock tower, thanks
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:38 PM   #17522
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Theoretically there's no difference in performance as the leverage on the arm is the same. The main handling difference comes from the weight location change. I personally like the shocks in front of the arms. It makes no sense to me to move the motor from behind the axle to in front of it to get weight within the wheelbase only to move the shocks and their weight back outside of that wheelbase again. Use it as a tuning change.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:09 PM   #17523
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Thanks for the quick reply, I have them behind the tower now and car runs great, will try in front tomorrow and see if it gets better.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:18 PM   #17524
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Fred,
Check out the Intech ER10m 2.0. They use similar parts as the Dex210, but seem like they have addressed a lot of the issues you have talked about. Different shock lengths to improve up travel because there team guys run bladders. Just doing a little reading the car is doing well. Do like how the layout looks. Just thought I would throw that out there. I do like the 22 3.0 as well. Thinking of doin a hybrid on my DEST with shorter rear Kyosho arms for durability and hopefully performance. Will see.

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Old 03-22-2016, 02:08 PM   #17525
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Originally Posted by sgtlt View Post
Fredswain: could you give some insight on rear shocks being in front or behind the rear shock tower, thanks
There are some benefits to putting the shocks behind the tower. Yes your moving a small amount of weight behind the wheels, but its nothing like what you had it you were running rear motor. You don't get the same pendulum effects as you do with rear motor, but you do get some forward traction benefits by having extra weight on the back of the arm.

The other benefit is being able to use the 4 and 5 hole on the shock tower. If you run on high grip tracks you will typically use these holes to increase the side bite and stability of the car going through the corner. if your looking for more forward grip on a loose track 1-3 would be more ideal, in which you could mount the shock on the front of the arm since it will clear the gear cover in these holes. But again you lose some the forward bite benefits and tunability from having it on the front of the arm.

When I've been pushing this car it always worked best, even on high bite carpet, with the shocks on the back of the arms. When I mounted the shocks on the front and used the outer holes it made the car less stable running hard into a corner. Tons of forward grip but it transferred weight left and right to much in my opinion. Either way, try out both setups and see what works for you. Just make sure you let us know what your outcomes were.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:28 PM   #17526
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The 210 is actually the perfect car for a sprint car conversion, or any oval for that matter. Suspension travel isn't as critical and being able to have the flexibility of the gearbox is a good thing. The style of arms isn't as critical nor is the rear shock mounting location. You can find plenty of used cars for cheap and plenty of V1 arms as spares. I'm hoping I can just replace the side pods to adapt to a sprint cage.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:31 PM   #17527
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Originally Posted by Laker67 View Post
There are some benefits to putting the shocks behind the tower. Yes your moving a small amount of weight behind the wheels, but its nothing like what you had it you were running rear motor. You don't get the same pendulum effects as you do with rear motor, but you do get some forward traction benefits by having extra weight on the back of the arm.

The other benefit is being able to use the 4 and 5 hole on the shock tower. If you run on high grip tracks you will typically use these holes to increase the side bite and stability of the car going through the corner. if your looking for more forward grip on a loose track 1-3 would be more ideal, in which you could mount the shock on the front of the arm since it will clear the gear cover in these holes. But again you lose some the forward bite benefits and tunability from having it on the front of the arm.

When I've been pushing this car it always worked best, even on high bite carpet, with the shocks on the back of the arms. When I mounted the shocks on the front and used the outer holes it made the car less stable running hard into a corner. Tons of forward grip but it transferred weight left and right to much in my opinion. Either way, try out both setups and see what works for you. Just make sure you let us know what your outcomes were.
I don't believe in tuning with shock positions this way. I find that it's a bandaid. At maximum suspension up travel, I want the shock to be at exactly 90 to the arm as measured from the bottom shock mount hole to the inner hinge pin. I want this front and rear, or as close to it as possible with each end being at the exact same angle as each other. Once springs are balanced, any change to the mounting locations changes (eliminates) the spring balance. Any changes to the lower shock mounting point change spring rate balance AND pack. Shocks should be setup as a system, not an independent adjustment.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:27 PM   #17528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker67 View Post
There are some benefits to putting the shocks behind the tower. Yes your moving a small amount of weight behind the wheels, but its nothing like what you had it you were running rear motor. You don't get the same pendulum effects as you do with rear motor, but you do get some forward traction benefits by having extra weight on the back of the arm.

The other benefit is being able to use the 4 and 5 hole on the shock tower. If you run on high grip tracks you will typically use these holes to increase the side bite and stability of the car going through the corner. if your looking for more forward grip on a loose track 1-3 would be more ideal, in which you could mount the shock on the front of the arm since it will clear the gear cover in these holes. But again you lose some the forward bite benefits and tunability from having it on the front of the arm.

When I've been pushing this car it always worked best, even on high bite carpet, with the shocks on the back of the arms. When I mounted the shocks on the front and used the outer holes it made the car less stable running hard into a corner. Tons of forward grip but it transferred weight left and right to much in my opinion. Either way, try out both setups and see what works for you. Just make sure you let us know what your outcomes were.
Another consideration is shocks on the rear of the tower helps keep the nose down and the car flatter whenever rear arms are compressed. The tower acts as a big lever depending on which side the shock is on the tower- rear shock leverages the nose down.
It's what makes the new 22 3.0 so good when grip is up and what inside Associated guys are now trying to correct on the B5...
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:31 PM   #17529
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Yes my 22 3.0 is so dialed, that's why I went rear mount on the 210v2 shocks, tried to get the two cars set up as close as possible to the same.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:35 PM   #17530
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Another consideration is shocks on the rear of the tower helps keep the nose down and the car flatter whenever rear arms are compressed. The tower acts as a big lever depending on which side the shock is on the tower- rear shock leverages the nose down.
It's what makes the new 22 3.0 so good when grip is up and what inside Associated guys are now trying to correct on the B5...
That doesn't matter. What affects nose up or nose down is spring rate balance. Get them balanced front to back and you could have one shock on the front and one on the back. Shock location is irrelevant. Even weight balance is irrelevant to flight orientation as long as springs are balanced.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:40 PM   #17531
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Fred: I am not understanding what you mean about spring balance ?
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:05 PM   #17532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
That doesn't matter. What affects nose up or nose down is spring rate balance. Get them balanced front to back and you could have one shock on the front and one on the back. Shock location is irrelevant. Even weight balance is irrelevant to flight orientation as long as springs are balanced.
When it was shown to me I was skeptical at first too but noted impressive test results.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:43 PM   #17533
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.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:01 PM   #17534
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:15 AM   #17535
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Fred: I am not understanding what you mean about spring balance ?
Search for a thread names "balance with camber links".

First half of the thread will explain it all. About the first 70 pages or so. Take your time. Take notes. Confusing at first but will clear up. Pay attention to Fred Swain comments!!
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