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Old 08-31-2015, 07:10 AM   #16456
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Hey guys, looking for a mid motor setup help/suggestion. All year I run rm3 with great success (won the points series), but many of the fast guys run mid motor (rb6, b5m and serpent). Now the kicker is the track I run on is loose/semi loose with a few decent size jumps and semi bumpy. In the main groove its semi etc. We water and broom the track off between rounds and at night the moisture will actually stick around. We are currently starting a mid motor class for fall series (they are jealous I beat them). Im looking for guidance to gain as much traction possible. Ill post my setup sheet (have not changed the car yet this is just guessing). Let me know what you all think. Have advice, please offer it.

Anything in YELLOW I am undecided on.



Tires are not really issue. Best tires at our track is SS impacts, hybrids, enduros and holeshots.

Thanks peeps.
If you are running Mid, I didn't really change too much with the setup on the car than when I was running RM3/RM4. If you need the RM setup for the shock and droop and stuff its, on petitRC.
I still run the 3x1.6 hole pistons with 35wt front and 30wt rear. Black up front and light blue rears. 25 kickup using the 0 inserts on the caster blocks, 1.5 antisqaut and 3 toe. You can go 3.5 toe if you need a bit more grip. Rear Hubs full forward.

The most important thing would be the weight. Short full rear, I also added 2x 7g weights to each side pod in the rear and tried to keep my electrons as far back as possible to keep the weight more to the rear.
See attached.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:39 AM   #16457
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Does anyone know if the shock shafts are longer on a V1 car than a V2 car? After installing V2 parts on my V1 car I cannot get the ride height low enough. Can't get lower than 24mm.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:48 AM   #16458
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Does anyone know if the shock shafts are longer on a V1 car than a V2 car? After installing V2 parts on my V1 car I cannot get the ride height low enough. Can't get lower than 24mm.
Yes, the v2 rear shock shafts are shorter, as they lowerd the rear shock tower, too!
I'm not sure, but i think they are shorter by about 3-4 mm?

Edit: ...i had a quick look at the Td site, v1's are 55 mm, and v2 are 52 mm!
Edit 2: v2's are now the same as the 410 shocks...
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:47 AM   #16459
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I'd recommend keeping the V1 rear shocks and tower. The V2 geometry is all wrong. The V2 arms are fine.
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:10 AM   #16460
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fredswain: are you saying keep the rear tower and shocks, what about the front tower, I think they are same height, main goal for me was to get thr flat front arms.

thanks
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:39 PM   #16461
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Does anyone know if the shock shafts are longer on a V1 car than a V2 car? After installing V2 parts on my V1 car I cannot get the ride height low enough. Can't get lower than 24mm.
I'm running all v2 parts and works great...I'm at 23/22 with room to go lower. What's you're set up...
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:55 PM   #16462
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I have Travis Amezcua's set up from CRCRC, my prob may be that I still have V1 shocks with V2 towers and front arms.


thanks for all the advice
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:05 PM   #16463
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I have Travis Amezcua's set up from CRCRC, my prob may be that I still have V1 shocks with V2 towers and front arms.


thanks for all the advice
If you run v2 front arms and v1 shocks, please be carefull and watch your uptravel top end, because of the new strait arms, they shortend the shock shaft, by 1.5 mm and the shock body by 1.5 mm, too!

Edit: and they us new offset spring retainers now, front and rear.
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Last edited by micholix; 08-31-2015 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:12 AM   #16464
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fredswain: are you saying keep the rear tower and shocks, what about the front tower, I think they are same height, main goal for me was to get thr flat front arms.

thanks
I run a different setup than everyone else because I took the time to figure out the suspension geometry and shock travel issues that I didn't like about the car based on it's performance and then devised a solution. The last thing I wanted to do was to use things like chassis flex and other techniques to try to compensate for what I personally believe to be a fundamental geometry flaw. I get criticized pretty hard for it here but the car drives great now. Saying that, this is my personal opinion on how the car should be setup.

Leave the rear end alone. Leave the V1 rear shocks and V1 rear tower on. I use an aftermarket carbon fiber rear tower but it is still the V1 geometry. You can use the V2 rear arms because they don't change the suspension geometry. Either the V1 or V2 rear arms is fine.

The front end is a problem and something I really struggled to fix. There just isn't enough up travel, even in V1 form. Push all the way down. The car won't bottom out. I know some say to remove the bump stops to get extra travel but come on. That's ghetto. A bump stop has a job to do. You should never risk having the piston hit the shock cap. If you are running bladders, you need to have them there to prevent them from hitting the bladders. Since I only run bladder shocks, that's the only way that I'll set them up.

It would be nice to run the V1 front shocks but with a slightly taller front tower. My solution was to use the taller front tower DESC-210 short course truck with the V2 rear shocks but on the front end. I also bought the white series rear springs to get the front rates back to the equivalent of the standard front springs. The pictures of the front of my car from a page or two back shows standard springs since I was just taking a pictures while working on the car but there are whites on there now. I bought the full set of whites to tune with. I'm pretty confident that I could stiffen the chassis up to have the flex of a piece of granite and I'd have no traction issues whatsoever on any track. The car is just so predictable.

The downside to this setup is that the taller front tower might potentially be easier to break. It does after all stick up higher. You could use a carbon fiber tower here but I'm already against the amount of drag created by the lack of airflow from modern front towers and shocks that a carbon piece would be like sticking a giant air brake on the front of the car. That puts the center of aerodynamic pressure way ahead of the center of gravity of the car. That makes it unstable. This is actually true of most modern cars. Their solution is to use giant rear wings that add tons of rear drag to move the center of pressure rearward to increase stability somewhat. Then we run lots of trailing steering and caster.

It's all complicated and as you can see just fix upon fix upon fix until the whole premise of tuning is to improvise something that just might work ok. I'd rather just correct an issue when I see it.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:25 AM   #16465
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Hey Fredswain, does this work for MM and RM? Possible setup sheet for us to gander at?
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:33 AM   #16466
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If you run v2 front arms and v1 shocks, please be carefull and watch your uptravel top end, because of the new strait arms, they shortend the shock shaft, by 1.5 mm and the shock body by 1.5 mm, too!

Edit: and they us new offset spring retainers now, front and rear.
Just remove the rubber stopper if you use v1 shocks with v2 arms. The loss of 1.5mm in clearance can be gained with the removal of the stopper which is about 1.5mm anyways. I also run shock boots, and there is a bit of rubber there for cushioning the up travel . And the piston doesn't hit the shock cap.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:38 AM   #16467
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Hey Fredswain, does this work for MM and RM? Possible setup sheet for us to gander at?
It doesn't matter if it's RM or MM. I don't post setup sheets. I believe that they are a handicap that stifles learning. I stopped even looking at other people's setup sheets long ago.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:06 PM   #16468
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I go by results...I'm old 42....lol. I posted a set up a few pages ago and its pretty good........5th out of 55 at the Kyosho race at the Clubhouse in February and 7th out of 30 last weekend against good competition... Stock buggy too with a 5 year old lrp esc and a 2year old Killshot motor... V2 everything except a CF exotek chassis....
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Last edited by kerby; 09-01-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:11 AM   #16469
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Fred, how much does your weels lift off the ground, if you bottom out your car?
I had some tests at my car, andmy front weel does not lift of more than about 5-7 mm without the shocks mountet-i did not messure it yet, because the turnbuckels does not allow more then that( i use lunsford ti turnbuckels and ball eyes).
Also, did you remove some material from the front top brace, as the steering turnbuckle startes to hit that part, when i move the steering left to right!
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:21 AM   #16470
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I run Losi ball cups and studs with Lunsford turnbuckles. My shocks definitely hit the bump stops before anything else on the suspension maxes out. I'll go check it all tonight. Keep in mind that your inside wheel in a corner will probably never be at max compression so that shouldn't be an issue.
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