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Old 02-17-2015, 11:14 AM   #16036
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Originally Posted by 71schaeffer View Post
Yesterday i was running my car MM with the shorty pack all the way back and it wouldnt turn, i moved it forward and it helped a little. Any advice?
It can be a number of reasons:

Front tires / Rear Tires
Front Droop (reduce it to get more steering)
Rear Droop (increase it to get more steering)
MM3 or MM4?
Amount of Anti-squat? Use 3 for more steering, 0 for more side grip in turns
Front and Rear Roll Center - Camber links with how many spacers inboard at the shock tower?
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:10 PM   #16037
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Originally Posted by Dino_D View Post
The v2 shock body is 21.5mm with a 2mm bump stop.
The original front v1 shock body is 23mm. With a 2mm bump stop.

In stock form, this will not allow enough upward travel. Thus removing the bump stop, will give the extra 2mm required to be more like the shorter 21.5mm shock body with bump stop. And no it doesn't hit the top of the cap without the bump stop. I have tested this.

You got a 23mm body and a 44mm shaft on the v1 vs the V2 using a 21.5mm body and 42.5mm shaft.

I have several 210. I mainly run my v1 with v2 arms and shock towers. But I do have 2 other v2 kits, one in MM, and another in RM mode.

All I am saying is that it works. On certain conditions, I prefer the v1 shocks, other conditions I prefer to run the v2 up front with the v2 arms. I can get into depth about the differences of shock volume and my reasons for doing so. However, in short, the v2 shocks I find are more responsive on med to high bite, and the v1 shocks better for loose (low bite) and rougher track conditions.
I only run bladder shocks so running without a bump stop in V1 shocks on a V2 arm will result in the piston hitting the bladder. I don't want that.

I'm making a slightly taller front tower for my car. I believe the existing tower design is too short and doesn't allow enough upward travel.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:55 PM   #16038
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okay, so for loose conditions, what would you fredswain and Dino recommend from the V1 and V2 hybrid?
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:58 PM   #16039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino_D View Post
It can be a number of reasons:

Front tires / Rear Tires
Front Droop (reduce it to get more steering)
Rear Droop (increase it to get more steering)
MM3 or MM4?
Amount of Anti-squat? Use 3 for more steering, 0 for more side grip in turns
Front and Rear Roll Center - Camber links with how many spacers inboard at the shock tower?
MM4, I'm running Gold barcodes all the way around and people around the track recommend those. Right now i have no anti squat. 2 spacers front and rear on the shock tower camber links.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:07 PM   #16040
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I only run bladder shocks so running without a bump stop in V1 shocks on a V2 arm will result in the piston hitting the bladder. I don't want that.
Yeah, you mentioned you run bladders. With bladders they will hit.


Quote:
I'm making a slightly taller front tower for my car. I believe the existing tower design is too short and doesn't allow enough upward travel.
I agree that the existing design should have had more up travel. But raising the towers will result in a reduction of droop. If you increase the shock shaft length then it will hit the top of the bladder again. But I guess you can unscrew a bit of the bottom shock end. Then you still need to consider shock angles, etc. Lots of things to consider and measure. It may even require you to use a different shock body and shock shaft.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:22 PM   #16041
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okay, so for loose conditions, what would you fredswain and Dino recommend from the V1 and V2 hybrid?
If your conditions are loose - then probably be best you ran RM.

Type B +8 Chassis, v2 arms cause you don't want to dig in with the gullwing arms in turns, v2 shock towers, v2 lower shock retainers (make sure you pay attention to the shock retainers as they are marked 0 and 2) mixing them up will cause your ride height adjustments to be way way off.

Its all personal preference whether you want to use the v1 or v2 front shocks. I find the v2 shocks slightly more responsive to steering than the v1 shocks due to v1 having more volume. It the same reason why Jorn prefers small bores on indoor carpet sometimes.

My team mate runs the same car with the stock v1 towers with v1 shocks. The only difference in the front shock tower is that it is a little further back, the height is the same. As for the rear, the new v2 one is 2mm lower. but it allows for more adjustment in terms of hole position. So having more holes to move the rear top of the shock inboard, will result in more rear grip. Keep in mind running the v1 shocks on the v2 will require you to remove the rubber stoppers on the shocks.

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Old 02-17-2015, 01:40 PM   #16042
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thanks guys, I will be running RM as local track is loose, but this will be my first time racing so I thought I better chase up some info before I buy anything, I can pick up a v2 kit for $275 AUD locally which doesn't seem to bad a price.
Any recommendations on a servo, I can pick up a Mamba max pro cheap would this be ok as an esc

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Old 02-17-2015, 02:00 PM   #16043
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Originally Posted by Dino_D View Post
I agree that the existing design should have had more up travel. But raising the towers will result in a reduction of droop. If you increase the shock shaft length then it will hit the top of the bladder again. But I guess you can unscrew a bit of the bottom shock end. Then you still need to consider shock angles, etc. Lots of things to consider and measure. It may even require you to use a different shock body and shock shaft.
It'll be fine. I'll be using the 23mm shocks on V2 arms. The arms at full droop with the shocks fully extended actually end up with an upper mounting point higher than the existing tower.
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:11 PM   #16044
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
Why would there be a problem turning with MM3 but not with MM4. MM4 transfers more weight off of the wheels that steer. I currently have a shorty all the way back in MM3 and steering isn't a problem at all. If the car isn't turning well, it's a setup problem.


I was running the Trailing axle not inline on the Front hubs so i needed to make a few changes when i ran the MM3 to get more turn in maintly and changing the Front tires and Red Front springs worked . MM4 actually to me had to much steering when i ran it to twichy if the Grip level was lower.

But with the battery toward the Rear end still . Im trying out Rear motor anyways now to see if i like it better.
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:15 PM   #16045
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What exactly is the difference when comparing V1 a V2 shocks?
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Old 02-17-2015, 02:25 PM   #16046
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Originally Posted by tc5 man View Post
I was running the Trailing axle not inline on the Front hubs so i needed to make a few changes when i ran the MM3 to get more turn in maintly and changing the Front tires and Red Front springs worked . MM4 actually to me had to much steering when i ran it to twichy if the Grip level was lower.

But with the battery toward the Rear end still . Im trying out Rear motor anyways now to see if i like it better.
I am currently running MM3 with a shorty all the way back. 4mm trailing steering with 25 caster. Rear arms all the way back. Turning is not a problem. The key is to have shock balance. Almost no one gets this right. Laying a shock over does not give more or less steering. It only changes the effective leverage of the spring. If you change the effective leverage of the spring at one end, you've got to adjust the other as well. Once you get shock balance, you can not change one end without changing the other.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:26 AM   #16047
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I was curious about the rear shock length needed. The only difference between a V1 and V2 rear is the shock shaft. The V1 is slightly longer. At full droop with a V1 rear tower, the hrc block, and the V2 shock setup, the shock has enough total travel. I didn't need to go back to the V1 shaft. I don't know about with an lrc rear block since I don't run one and feel that it was a mistake to come out with but for my needs this works out great. I have tons of shock uptravel now. Now I need to work on the front.
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Old 02-18-2015, 08:57 AM   #16048
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Originally Posted by kerby View Post
What exactly is the difference when comparing V1 a V2 shocks?
V1
Front shock body:23mm
Front shock shaft: 44mm
Orange O-Rings / Type-A Piston

Rear shock body:31mm
Rear shock shaft:55mm
Orange O-Rings / Type-a Pistons


V2
Front shock body: 21.5mm
Front shock shaft: 42.5mm
Purple Low Friction O-Rings /Type-B Piston

Rear shock body: 31mm
Rear shock shaft: 52mm
Purple Low Friction O-Rings / Type-B Pistons
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:50 AM   #16049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino_D View Post
If your conditions are loose - then probably be best you ran RM.

Type B +8 Chassis, v2 arms cause you don't want to dig in with the gullwing arms in turns, v2 shock towers, v2 lower shock retainers (make sure you pay attention to the shock retainers as they are marked 0 and 2) mixing them up will cause your ride height adjustments to be way way off.

Its all personal preference whether you want to use the v1 or v2 front shocks. I find the v2 shocks slightly more responsive to steering than the v1 shocks due to v1 having more volume. It the same reason why Jorn prefers small bores on indoor carpet sometimes.

My team mate runs the same car with the stock v1 towers with v1 shocks. The only difference in the front shock tower is that it is a little further back, the height is the same. As for the rear, the new v2 one is 2mm lower. but it allows for more adjustment in terms of hole position. So having more holes to move the rear top of the shock inboard, will result in more rear grip. Keep in mind running the v1 shocks on the v2 will require you to remove the rubber stoppers on the shocks.

1.5 anti-squat, 3-3.5 rear toe. Black front, Light blue rear.
My setups are posted on PetitRC if you require them.
got your setups and they worked quite well.

I'll see about the V2 arms for the front, V2 shock cups, and the V2 rear shock tower. Heck may have the rear tower here already I am thinking, just using a graphite one that came with the vehicle and already using the front V2 tower.

So as long as I get those V2 shock cups I should be able to get my V1 shocks to work with the V2 a-arms and tower up front and V2 rear tower.
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:04 AM   #16050
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Your performance isn't going to be as good with the V2 geometry as it will with the V1. With the exception of the front arms, leave the rest V1.
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