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Old 11-05-2011, 07:27 PM   #1561
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Ok, so I am posting from the track at the moment.... and have been here for 6 hours and have gotten a grand total of 10 laps on the track because I have been having nothing but nasty issues with my diff. It is built perfectly fine per the manual, and I have rebuilt it 3 times tonight here at the track (which is an amazing feet in and of itself considering there is 25 some odd screws that you have to pull in order to get it out)...

In my hand, the diff feels great. I can break it in and snug it down till its just tight enough, and toss it in the car. I get about 5 or 6 laps around the track, and out of NOwhere, "wam" the car will lose 100% power. What happens, is the center gear on the diff just spins free, and the outdrives sit still. If you grab both tires and spin them in opposite directions, the diff feels super super tight, but there is zero diff action.

3000 screws later, and the diff is out of the car... I disassemble the diff and pull it apart, but it looks fine in it's pieces. I can reassemble the diff all over again and get it back into the car... and it will do the exact same thing 5 or 6 laps later. I can't tell for the LIFE of me what is failing in the diff... all I know is this car is 2 steps away from the trash can ..

Anybody else having this issue? The diff was flawless its first two track days... today, i have 6 hours of wrenching for 5 minutes of track time. BAHH!!
Wish I could help mines great lots of time on it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:34 PM   #1562
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Ok, so I am posting from the track at the moment.... and have been here for 6 hours and have gotten a grand total of 10 laps on the track because I have been having nothing but nasty issues with my diff. It is built perfectly fine per the manual, and I have rebuilt it 3 times tonight here at the track (which is an amazing feet in and of itself considering there is 25 some odd screws that you have to pull in order to get it out)...

In my hand, the diff feels great. I can break it in and snug it down till its just tight enough, and toss it in the car. I get about 5 or 6 laps around the track, and out of NOwhere, "wam" the car will lose 100% power. What happens, is the center gear on the diff just spins free, and the outdrives sit still. If you grab both tires and spin them in opposite directions, the diff feels super super tight, but there is zero diff action.
3000 screws later, and the diff is out of the car... I disassemble the diff and pull it apart, but it looks fine in it's pieces. I can reassemble the diff all over again and get it back into the car... and it will do the exact same thing 5 or 6 laps later. I can't tell for the LIFE of me what is failing in the diff... all I know is this car is 2 steps away from the trash can ..

Anybody else having this issue? The diff was flawless its first two track days... today, i have 6 hours of wrenching for 5 minutes of track time. BAHH!!
Remember my post on page 101, had the exact same issue you have Brandon (you even quoted me about the diff problems). If your read it, I found the snap ring not engaged in the groove inside the diff.....pushed and popped it back into place, and good so far after two 5 minute quals and a 6 minute main. My diff had its problem after two runs originally. If the snap ring isnt engaged fully in the outdrive it will pop out when you tighten the diff screw and everything will bind up in the middle and then spread the outdrives apart which is why the diff gear can wobble and spin free even though the diff feels tight.

And its RM3......
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:48 PM   #1563
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Remember my post on page 101, had the exact same issue you have Brandon (you even quoted me about the diff problems). If your read it, I found the snap ring not engaged in the groove inside the diff.....pushed and popped it back into place, and good so far after two 5 minute quals and a 6 minute main. My diff had its problem after two runs originally. If the snap ring isnt engaged fully in the outdrive it will pop out when you tighten the diff screw and everything will bind up in the middle and then spread the outdrives apart which is why the diff gear can wobble and spin free even though the diff feels tight.

And its RM3......
also 1 thing that may help is snap rings are stamped, so they have 1 sharpedged side, and 1 with slightly rounded edges.By putting the ring in oriented so the sharp edged sided is the side that carries the load of the diff in the groove may help it stay seated..I have run into similar issues with snap rings while re-building hydraulic valve assemblies,so it may be as simple as paying attention to which side of the snap ring carries the load when seated in the groove...
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:01 PM   #1564
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also 1 thing that may help is snap rings are stamped, so they have 1 sharpedged side, and 1 with slightly rounded edges.By putting the ring in oriented so the sharp edged sided is the side that carries the load of the diff in the groove may help it stay seated..I have run into similar issues with snap rings while re-building hydraulic valve assemblies,so it may be as simple as paying attention to which side of the snap ring carries the load when seated in the groove...
That makes good sense...put the "rounded" side of the snap ring against the thrust washer
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:31 PM   #1565
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i haven't been following this thread much lately. been to busy racy the 210... i am digging this buggy! So far, there are about 4 of us at the track. i tq and won sportsman buggy today. almost lap 2nd place. guys are complaining i should be running with the experts... lol... i would, but then i'll be loosing... the next track change i will go to expert... but this buggy is hooked up! i am running rm3...
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:32 PM   #1566
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First race day with the DEX210 ar Raceworld RC today. They had a trophy race and there were 4 heats of Mod buggy with some stiff competition.
I must say this buggy passed with flying colors.
I did break a rear tower after I cased a jump and landed right on it. I think that was more of a freak thing as I did test it's durablity...not on purpose.

No popped rod ends.
No diff issues.

The buggy is super stable and planted. The more I tweaked the faster the lap times dropped.
Qualified 8th and I was able to post a 4th place in Bmain...but not bad for having limited practice.
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:45 PM   #1567
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First race day with the DEX210 ar Raceworld RC today. They had a trophy race and there were 4 heats of Mod buggy with some stiff competition.
I must say this buggy passed with flying colors.
I did break a rear tower after I cased a jump and landed right on it. I think that was more of a freak thing as I did test it's durablity...not on purpose.

No popped rod ends.
No diff issues.

The buggy is super stable and planted. The more I tweaked the faster the lap times dropped.
Qualified 8th and I was able to post a 4th place in Bmain...but not bad for having limited practice.
Two of us broke a rear shock tower as well.....both of cased/flat landed the concrete curbing on a corner really hard. I did have a few pretty hard tumbles and no popped ball cups here!
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Old 11-05-2011, 08:53 PM   #1568
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That makes good sense...put the "rounded" side of the snap ring against the thrust washer
I am quite interested in seeing if this is the issue and can be fixed by paying close attention to detail...Maybe one of the fellows that is having these issue could possibly post and confirm on their next rebuild attemp???
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Old 11-05-2011, 09:00 PM   #1569
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I can`t wait to get a 210 !
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:19 PM   #1570
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Ok, so I am posting from the track at the moment.... and have been here for 6 hours and have gotten a grand total of 10 laps on the track because I have been having nothing but nasty issues with my diff. It is built perfectly fine per the manual, and I have rebuilt it 3 times tonight here at the track (which is an amazing feet in and of itself considering there is 25 some odd screws that you have to pull in order to get it out)...

In my hand, the diff feels great. I can break it in and snug it down till its just tight enough, and toss it in the car. I get about 5 or 6 laps around the track, and out of NOwhere, "wam" the car will lose 100% power. What happens, is the center gear on the diff just spins free, and the outdrives sit still. If you grab both tires and spin them in opposite directions, the diff feels super super tight, but there is zero diff action.

3000 screws later, and the diff is out of the car... I disassemble the diff and pull it apart, but it looks fine in it's pieces. I can reassemble the diff all over again and get it back into the car... and it will do the exact same thing 5 or 6 laps later. I can't tell for the LIFE of me what is failing in the diff... all I know is this car is 2 steps away from the trash can ..

Anybody else having this issue? The diff was flawless its first two track days... today, i have 6 hours of wrenching for 5 minutes of track time. BAHH!!
Carbide or ceramic balls? As smooth as ceramics are, I won't run them as they are "too smooth" and do not have enough friction to let the diff work properly.

What's your break in procedure? I do mine like any other ball diff- tighten while holding the outdrives until the gear cannot be turned by hand, then begin breaking in with an electric drill on its low speed setting. 30 seconds, tighten, reverse the drill, 30 more seconds, reverse again, etc. I do this about 8 times until the diff is tighter than we will really run it, but it breaks in the rings very nice. I had similar issues with Cush's car on the initial build, but since rebuilding it with some fresh carbides and breaking itin in thiswith way the diff is working flawlessly- still as smooth as the day it was built. Cush has 7 qualifiers and 4 mains on it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:04 PM   #1571
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Originally Posted by hopsing View Post
Remember my post on page 101, had the exact same issue you have Brandon (you even quoted me about the diff problems). If your read it, I found the snap ring not engaged in the groove inside the diff.....pushed and popped it back into place, and good so far after two 5 minute quals and a 6 minute main. My diff had its problem after two runs originally. If the snap ring isnt engaged fully in the outdrive it will pop out when you tighten the diff screw and everything will bind up in the middle and then spread the outdrives apart which is why the diff gear can wobble and spin free even though the diff feels tight.

And its RM3......
That is exactly what I thought... but when i pull the diff out of the car, the snap ring is fully seated right where it belongs. I have built the diff with both full ceramics and also did the stock diff and thrusts... exact same issue.

Diff feels perfect for 6, 7, maybe 10 laps... then literally out of nowhere, something happens internally in the diff, and the center diff gear will freely spin inside the outdrives. From the driver stand it sounds and feels exactly like it sounds and feels like when you spin a pinion gear... but its the center diff gear on the outdrives.

I'm at a loss...
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:05 PM   #1572
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Originally Posted by Jonny5 View Post
Carbide or ceramic balls? As smooth as ceramics are, I won't run them as they are "too smooth" and do not have enough friction to let the diff work properly.

What's your break in procedure? I do mine like any other ball diff- tighten while holding the outdrives until the gear cannot be turned by hand, then begin breaking in with an electric drill on its low speed setting. 30 seconds, tighten, reverse the drill, 30 more seconds, reverse again, etc. I do this about 8 times until the diff is tighter than we will really run it, but it breaks in the rings very nice. I had similar issues with Cush's car on the initial build, but since rebuilding it with some fresh carbides and breaking itin in thiswith way the diff is working flawlessly- still as smooth as the day it was built. Cush has 7 qualifiers and 4 mains on it.


Brandon had the same exact problem I had (and what sounds like a few others have had) and I have the stock balls and thrusts in mine. So I doubt the ceramic balls would be an issue...I've never had an issue with a diff not working properly in any car I've ever built with ceramics.

I'm 99% sure the snap ring coming unseated is the problem...
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:42 PM   #1573
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That makes good sense...put the "rounded" side of the snap ring against the thrust washer
Took my 210 to the track tonight for some normal club racing. But instead of racing my 210 I decided to engineer the diff to fail. I know it sounds nuts, but I set my diff up to fail. Since reading this thread it seems the 2 biggest issues are (1) not enough kits/parts and (2) the diff issue. So I decided to test everything I could think of to get the diff to fail. Let me start by saying the diff build is out of the norm for most because of the circlip. Having run Xray on-road cars for a while the snap ring in the diff isn't new to me. It's different than every other off-road diff I've ever built, but once you get it to work correctly it should be smooth sailing.

First the thrust washers make no difference. As long as you put the grooved side toward the thrust cage which washer goes where makes no difference. I;ve read that there is a tiny difference between the washers....it makes no difference. How tight the diff or slipper is makes no difference. You can lock both the diff and slipper down until you almost break the screws.....doesn;t matter.

The one thing that does matter is which side of the snap ring goes toward the thrust assembly! The "rounded" side MUST face the thrust assembly so the "flat: side can lock itself in to the grooved section of the outdrive. When ever I installed the "rounded" side away from the thrust assembly the diff would spread and fail. Make sure the flat side is toward the gear side of the outdrive, or another way of saying it, the rounded side toward the thrust cage.

It didn't matter if I felt the sanp ring was in the groove.....every time the flat side was toward the thrust cage the car would just rev and not go anywhere. Needless to say the rounded side is toward the thrust cage and my diff is working perfectly! I was playing with it in the street shortly before I decided the type this......the buggy will carry a cat walk for 15 feet every time I grab full throttle......if the high traction of the blacktop street does "pop" the diff then the diff should hold up no problem.

And on a side note. I break in a diff the same way The Ryans do. Tighten diff until the gear doesnt turn when holing outdrives with small screwdrivers. Install diff in gear box and install gear box in car. Turn radio on...turn car on. Hold in one hand the radio and in the other hand hold one wheel. While holing one wheel in hand leave the other wheel in the air and apply throttle at about 15-20% for 30 sec. After the 30 seconds I put both tires in the air and apply same 15-20% throttle for 30 sec. Next grab hold of the tires that wasn't perviously held and allow other tire to be in the air while holding 15-29% throttle. Then again put both wheels in the air and apply throtttle. Repeat several times. Drive car and listen for diff slipping noise....sounds like a "bark". If you have a whine noise then the slipper is too loose. Tighten and retest. If all is good then the diff is broken in and ready for racing. It's like Johnny5 method without the drill and you dont have to have the diff out of the car.
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:18 AM   #1574
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Both mine and a mates car have had ZERO diff problems, after 5 hours of running on high grip carpet. Snap ring installed using a proper set of circlip pliers, sharp side of the circlip biting into the groove so the thrust race presses against the chamfered side, squeezing it the minimum amount to install it. If you over compress the circlip they will be damaged. I replace the circlip everytime the thrust race comes out.

On another note, make sure you degrease all the metal parts in the diff, to avoid any contamination of the diff oils with machining oil thats left behind.
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:23 AM   #1575
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Chris,

I haven't had any probs with my DEX210 diff, but haven't been able to feel the diff between the sharp and rounded side of the clip (working for Tesco in frozen section at uni ). Are you using original TD parts when stripping the diff down etc?

See you at MK GP

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