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Old 09-17-2014, 05:42 PM   #15061
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I run a viper 8.5 with 45* of mechanical timing geared at 26/75, and it doesn't get hot. All that said, I think the more common gearing is more like 23/81, but I'm not totally sure. For some reason the motor I run is slow and runs cold unless geared super tall. The timing really helped. I'm sure you'll get a better response from someone else, it's a pretty standard turn of motor to run
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:14 PM   #15062
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cool thanks!
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Old 09-17-2014, 08:24 PM   #15063
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need some advice on gearing. I am planning to use either a 8.5 motor or 10.5 motor.

Anything you guys recommend for starting point?

will be using Avid slipper setup, have a wide range of spurs.
On medium indoor track I gear my 9.5 at 25/75 temps 120ish after 5 min
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:29 AM   #15064
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need some advice on gearing. I am planning to use either a 8.5 motor or 10.5 motor.

Anything you guys recommend for starting point?

will be using Avid slipper setup, have a wide range of spurs.
81/23 with the Avid using an 8.5T
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:45 AM   #15065
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Thanks!

The track is very small, so a bigger spur may be the ticket.

the only thing that really sucks with this avid setup other than the durability of the included spur gear cover is that it seems to slip alot during assembly. A real pain to get it seated. Once its seated thought its great. Its like you need to get it threaded to a certain point before it "sticks" if that makes sense.

Right now I got 76 tooth on there.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:24 AM   #15066
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I'm running a 25/81 combo with my 8.5 motor and 10 degree of timing on an indoor dirt track. Motor temps in the mid 130's after 6 min main.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:32 AM   #15067
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Thanks, 81 it is!

So, is there any current hot setup for very loose dirt? I got one that someone recommended before, hope to work on it this weekend and put it on but in case someone has something better, I am open.

This is using the plastic chassis +8mm , a V1 version DEX210 with some upgrades.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:41 AM   #15068
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funny I was coming to the thread today to see what the general consensus on the avid slipper setup was. I've had one in my parts box for a while but haven't tried it yet. Figured since I picked up the new DEX210v2 I should try it. I have the white pads, should I get a set of reds too? The biggest attraction for me right now is that their spur gears seem less expensive and more readily available.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:54 AM   #15069
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heck if someone wanted to trade I'd be interested in the tresrey setup to use AE spurs myself since I wnat to use the exotek cover. Got tons of spurs here.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:02 PM   #15070
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Thanks!

The track is very small, so a bigger spur may be the ticket.

the only thing that really sucks with this avid setup other than the durability of the included spur gear cover is that it seems to slip alot during assembly. A real pain to get it seated. Once its seated thought its great. Its like you need to get it threaded to a certain point before it "sticks" if that makes sense.

Right now I got 76 tooth on there.
I run the avid on the mid motor car I have. The cover is more protected in MM config and less likely to crack. Also I run 1 Red pad in the middle with 2 whites using a 8.5T

For rear motor (RM) I run the Exotek metal gear cover with AE B4 slipper pads. The gear cover is bullet proof, and also on my truck.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:10 PM   #15071
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I run the avid on the mid motor car I have. The cover is more protected in MM config and less likely to crack. Also I run 1 Red pad in the middle with 2 whites using a 8.5T

For rear motor (RM) I run the Exotek metal gear cover with AE B4 slipper pads. The gear cover is bullet proof, and also on my truck.
to confirm you are using the metal cover with the regular durango spurs or with the avid in RM?
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:41 PM   #15072
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I've always found "rear grip" to be a misnomer. Most people interpret it to mean forward grip. However another important aspect of rear grip is rear end grip under braking going into a corner. This is side grip. MM in general has less side grip due to less weight on the rear wheels which is most noticeable on lower grip surfaces. Due to less weight on the wheels, the artificial weight transfer of MM4 helps with forward grip during acceleration. That much is true. Keep in mind that I add weight to the rear half of the buggy to account for a static weight redistribution from going to MM. The difference is that the weight is not way behind the rear wheels anymore.

Think about artificial weight transfer this way. Let's make up some numbers first of all. Let's say our buggy weighs 4 lbs. Let's also say that 60% of that weight is on the rear wheels in MM. That's 2.4 lbs on the rear end. Lets say that in rear motor there's 70% weight on the rear wheels. That's 2.8 lbs on the wheels. You can already see a .4 lb difference. Most people run RM3 which opposes an artificial weight transfer from the motor. Most people also run 3 rear kick which also further reduces weight transfer to the rear.

In MM4, the motor rotation assists in shifting weight bias to the rear. It does this by taking it away from the front. MM4 cars have been known to wheelie even on tracks that RM cars don't. If it wheelies, that's 4 lbs of weight on the rear wheels so good forward grip. However that's also 0 weight on the front wheels which is useless for on power cornering. You've got to baby it. To compensate people run rear kick and add weight up front. That certainly helps but doesn't change the fact that under hard braking during turn in, weight is shifted forwards which is less side grip on the rear. That's why many MM cars spin out easier going into looser track corners than RM cars do.

You may be saying that MM3 isn't going to do any better going into a corner. That's true but only if you leave the weight distribution the same. I add some weight. I just don't add it up front. I add it in back. I increase the weight on drive wheels. I also run no rear kick which also helps a bit with rear weight transfer under acceleration. I may not get 4 lbs of weight on the wheels under hard acceleration but if you don't need that much, why have it? The added weight on my rear wheels is also an aid in corner turn in off power. When I get on the throttle, I keep more grip on the wheels that steer.

Have I ever run MM4? Yes. We had one track layout that had berms for corners that you had to ride like a skateboard and no sweeping corners. That was a point and shoot layout. MM4 worked better there. Then again RM3 worked better yet since it was more controllable. If I can't make MM3 work, I'll go back to RM3. I don't ever like the motor rotating in the same direction as the wheels. It's much more twitchy to drive.

If you just run MM3 on a low grip track but you don't take the time to pay attention to weight or a balanced spring setup, you will be disappointed. Most people don't, and are.



Ive just begun experimenting with the mm3 and mm4 on loose dirt and slick clay conditions. My question is where do you add the weight in the rear when using the mm3 configuration?
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:17 AM   #15073
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Just further on the motor gearing for a 8.5 etc.. do you guys run in blinky mode or with boosted software set to zero, is there any advantage or disadvantage to blinky vs zero boost/turbo does it behave similar
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:44 AM   #15074
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@keepitsteel - I stole an idea from someone else many pages ago in this thread and am using lead sinker fishing weights tucked against the very rear of the car. They are attached via long screws that come up through the rear of the gear box. I would take a pic and post it, but I just changed my diff oil weight last night and haven't rebuilt the back of my car yet. Am planning on racing tomorrow night, so I will post a few pics in the next few days. If you google dex210 rear weight, you'll also find a spiffy brass weight available. My lead weights are ~10g each, for 21g total. The brass weight is 50g.

@thefan - I'm running my Tekin with min timing/boost in the ESC. I don't think there is a diff between that and blinky mode...or at least it's so small, I'm not good enough to notice.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:24 AM   #15075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer77 View Post
@keepitsteel - I stole an idea from someone else many pages ago in this thread and am using lead sinker fishing weights tucked against the very rear of the car. They are attached via long screws that come up through the rear of the gear box. I would take a pic and post it, but I just changed my diff oil weight last night and haven't rebuilt the back of my car yet. Am planning on racing tomorrow night, so I will post a few pics in the next few days. If you google dex210 rear weight, you'll also find a spiffy brass weight available. My lead weights are ~10g each, for 21g total. The brass weight is 50g.
I think tungsten putty is an easy an inexpensive way to add balancing weight to the car. It's easy to place and much less expensive than the aftermarket brass items. Another options would be to buy brass bars and cut and drill them for battery stoppers. This is a great place to add weight as it is between the shock towers so you don't create a pendulum behind your wheels. 1 oz = 28 grams

http://www.amazon.com/Pinewood-Derby.../dp/B004AG3C3W
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Last edited by 13Maschine; 09-19-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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