R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Like Tree27Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-12-2014, 09:57 AM   #15031
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 10
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I've been running the new b5m after being frustrated with the durango. its a great car but its not the easiest to set up and its twitchy. however recently there has been an astro track set up and for some reason i decided to give the durango a try again, and man did it perform. i think the car was totally designed for high grip tech tracks
hiangoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:46 AM   #15032
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I wasn't trying to be offensive in my response. I really hate the logic that if someone else does something that it must be for a good reason. That is a terrible assumption. The reality is that in any aspect of engineering (my job), copying is quite common while true innovation is quite rare. Thomas Andrews had a reason for designing the water tight bulkheads of the Titanic so that they only went up to E deck instead of A deck. There was a reason why he didn't use a larger more effective rudder. There was a reason why Captain Smith, the most experienced captain, ignored ice warnings and set a faster pace. There was a reason why Moron Thiokol engineers chose the o-ring material that they did for the Space Shuttle rocket boosters used on every launch up until the Challenger disaster. I could go on and on with examples of how the experts in their field did things that didn't always work out. Up until those events, why would anyone question them? Admittedly we are just talking about rc cars and tuning them but the point to be made is that you should never arbitrarily copy others if you believe you've got a way that works better. Incidentally rc cars today are essentially copies of each other. Look at competing designs over the past 25 years and you'll see similarities from brand to brand with parallel development of features over time. Most things are copies with the occasional new innovation added into the mix. That's essentially what I already said about engineering design.

My number one question to the people that think my techniques are weird is "have you tried it?". The answer is almost always no. Incidentally, those above that agree with me have tried it! It's not to say that it's the only way that it should be done. It is however proof that you don't have to do what others do to get good results. The quote in my signature sums up pretty well how I feel about things.
Ok i have tried it but only on a slipperyish surface, i found that it gives more steering and less rear grip, i hvent tried it on high grip as i usually have lots of steering with this buggy in MM4 and it jumps better i found in MM4 but each to there own!
__________________
Team Durango - DNX8 - DEX8 - DEX410v4 - DEX210v2 - Alpha Lutz WE - VP PRO - Futaba - Hudy - Orion
av4625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:50 AM   #15033
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 390
Default

For the guy asking about camber, i usually start with -1.5 front and rear, sometimes -1 front and maybe -2 rear, i never use less than -1 and usually no more than -2 on the front and no more than -2.5 rear!
__________________
Team Durango - DNX8 - DEX8 - DEX410v4 - DEX210v2 - Alpha Lutz WE - VP PRO - Futaba - Hudy - Orion
av4625 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:25 PM   #15034
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 246
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I'm currently setting this up for carpet since our dirt track closed down. I run MM3 with the rear shocks in front of the arms, inline steering, and 15 caster up front. No rear kick with 3 rear toe. This is the same setup I ran on dirt except I had the +8 Dimec20 chassis. I honestly never liked the +8 chassis. It could have been the flex or maybe it was having a hideous cab forward body. I don't know. I run the rear hubs all the way back so the drive shafts when viewed from above make a straight line. I have no idea why other people can't get rear grip and have to resort to MM4 or hubs forwards?
Ok will try this setup on my dirt car of longer wheelbase which should in theory put more weight on the rear wheels so more grip and which in turn means less steering but you get some of that back by only needing 3 toe and the inline steering, do you also put the 4 spacers in front of the hubs for the inline steering?
thefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #15035
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 650
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

has anyone opted to run the gear diff over the ball diff in their 210? If so how did you set it up?
__________________
Team driver for Tekno
EB48.4, ET48.3 in the process of upgrading.....
TLRrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 01:23 PM   #15036
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,544
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by av4625 View Post
Ok i have tried it but only on a slipperyish surface, i found that it gives more steering and less rear grip, i hvent tried it on high grip as i usually have lots of steering with this buggy in MM4 and it jumps better i found in MM4 but each to there own!
I've always found "rear grip" to be a misnomer. Most people interpret it to mean forward grip. However another important aspect of rear grip is rear end grip under braking going into a corner. This is side grip. MM in general has less side grip due to less weight on the rear wheels which is most noticeable on lower grip surfaces. Due to less weight on the wheels, the artificial weight transfer of MM4 helps with forward grip during acceleration. That much is true. Keep in mind that I add weight to the rear half of the buggy to account for a static weight redistribution from going to MM. The difference is that the weight is not way behind the rear wheels anymore.

Think about artificial weight transfer this way. Let's make up some numbers first of all. Let's say our buggy weighs 4 lbs. Let's also say that 60% of that weight is on the rear wheels in MM. That's 2.4 lbs on the rear end. Lets say that in rear motor there's 70% weight on the rear wheels. That's 2.8 lbs on the wheels. You can already see a .4 lb difference. Most people run RM3 which opposes an artificial weight transfer from the motor. Most people also run 3 rear kick which also further reduces weight transfer to the rear.

In MM4, the motor rotation assists in shifting weight bias to the rear. It does this by taking it away from the front. MM4 cars have been known to wheelie even on tracks that RM cars don't. If it wheelies, that's 4 lbs of weight on the rear wheels so good forward grip. However that's also 0 weight on the front wheels which is useless for on power cornering. You've got to baby it. To compensate people run rear kick and add weight up front. That certainly helps but doesn't change the fact that under hard braking during turn in, weight is shifted forwards which is less side grip on the rear. That's why many MM cars spin out easier going into looser track corners than RM cars do.

You may be saying that MM3 isn't going to do any better going into a corner. That's true but only if you leave the weight distribution the same. I add some weight. I just don't add it up front. I add it in back. I increase the weight on drive wheels. I also run no rear kick which also helps a bit with rear weight transfer under acceleration. I may not get 4 lbs of weight on the wheels under hard acceleration but if you don't need that much, why have it? The added weight on my rear wheels is also an aid in corner turn in off power. When I get on the throttle, I keep more grip on the wheels that steer.

Have I ever run MM4? Yes. We had one track layout that had berms for corners that you had to ride like a skateboard and no sweeping corners. That was a point and shoot layout. MM4 worked better there. Then again RM3 worked better yet since it was more controllable. If I can't make MM3 work, I'll go back to RM3. I don't ever like the motor rotating in the same direction as the wheels. It's much more twitchy to drive.

If you just run MM3 on a low grip track but you don't take the time to pay attention to weight or a balanced spring setup, you will be disappointed. Most people don't, and are.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 08:19 PM   #15037
P6
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: il
Posts: 683
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLRrunner View Post
has anyone opted to run the gear diff over the ball diff in their 210? If so how did you set it up?
I started with 3k diff oil but with the buggy being so lite I ended up at grease because it felt light enough to drive on power without it pushing the front end , I don't go above 2k but it also depends on your setup and how you drive
P6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:12 PM   #15038
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

How about a poll….has anyone actually run all four configurations?
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 08:00 PM   #15039
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default DE210v2 almost done!

I'm almost done guys! Building my new DEX210v2 that is. A lot of the updates are really subtle but well worth it overall. I really dig the new front shock tower. Beefier. Better geometry.

Running my electronics down the middle car seems to balance with the stock springs very well. Testing using the drop test. from 10-12 inches. Chassis just barely touches. Chassis rebounds flat. I'm using 1.7mmx2 and associated 30wt (I KNOW BLASPHEMY! lol) all around. 1.7mmx3 in the back. The setup is MM3, and very close to the kit settings. I'll be hitting OCRC soon to test it out.
I'll post setup and notes as soon as I do. I'm gonna try a set of panther switches and Bobcat fronts. Of course I have my trusty barcodes too. Perhaps I'll get a set of Dirtwebs finally.
Attached Thumbnails
Durango DEX210 Thread-img_1124.jpg   Durango DEX210 Thread-img_1125.jpg  
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 09:10 PM   #15040
Tech Elite
 
rcjunky1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,185
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

The front tower doesn't seem to be as strong as the v1 looks good
__________________
Official distributor of Dan-O-Mite Custom Parts- Durango 210 RF pivot blocks
Andrew Butters' Burghgraef
Team Durango Canada
Great Hobbies, Hobbico, Skyrc, Exotek
rcjunky1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 10:18 PM   #15041
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

@RCJunky: Really?! That surprises me a bit. It looks thicker. Have you broken a few?
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 10:34 PM   #15042
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

@TLRRunner: I ran my gear diff with 5K and 7K. 5K seems good when the traction is a little lower. 3K seemed to diff out too often. I ran 7K most of the time. It's nice and low maintenance. If you run ceramic balls in the diff though, it's pretty bullet proof even with a low turn mod motor.
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2014, 11:50 PM   #15043
Tech Regular
 
Pittster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Newcastle NSW
Posts: 400
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I have snapped a front v2 tower never a v1 but.
__________________
Team Associated B6D, Speed Passion Reventon Pro 1.0, Hobbywing V10 7.5t
Team Associated B64D, Speed Passion Reventon Pro 1.1, Hobbywing V10 G2 6.5t
Team Associated B5M CE, Tekin Rs Gen2, Fleta ZX 17.5t
Pittster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 11:09 AM   #15044
Tech Master
 
13Maschine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,554
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via Skype™ to 13Maschine
Default

@fredswain: and anyone else who has tried MM3, how do you reverse the rotation of your motor? Maybe I am missing something...It seems this is only possible with sensor less motors and the HobbyWing Xerun 3.1….?
__________________
SoCal R/C Privateer, find me at either OCRC or SCVRC!
My JUNSI POWERED Rides: Xray XB2 CE, Hot Bodies D413, Kyosho RB6, HobbyWing Xerun 3.1, Futaba 4PX, Futaba and MKS Servos, Speed Passion Hirosaka and HW V10 Powerplants!
First car Kyosho Pegasus and RC10CE! More than 25 years Racing! Happy to lend a helping hand. Just ask! :)
13Maschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 11:34 AM   #15045
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,544
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

You don't reverse the rotation of the motor. You build the gearbox with only 3 gears instead of 4 and place the spur gear on the right side instead of the left.
__________________
Follow my rc products on Facebook at Raborn Racing Originals and the line of 3D printed parts at
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rebellionrc
fredswain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
St Ives RC Club B4Bandit Australian Racing 16572 10-14-2017 01:35 AM
EPMTs check in here. (a subsidiary of TNT) overtki11 Singapore R/C Racers 55470 05-07-2017 11:57 PM
Team Durango DEX410 ASH93A Australian Racing 925 04-08-2013 09:51 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
coaltrain
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:48 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net