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Old 09-09-2014, 08:30 PM   #15016
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I just went back to the stock V1 chassis and the HRC rear with V2 suspension in MM. This is an awesome combination. More importantly I'm back to the original body!
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Old 09-10-2014, 12:55 AM   #15017
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I just went back to the stock V1 chassis and the HRC rear with V2 suspension in MM. This is an awesome combination. More importantly I'm back to the original body!
Hi fredswain,

Could you tell me, on what surface will you run with this configuration?

Thx in advance
Mike
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:57 AM   #15018
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Has anyone run the Exotek Graphite chassis? Comments, love it, hate it etc. Thanks!

Dave
I purchased two about a two months ago when Exotek had them marked down to $45. I have a V1, with the aluminum chassis. The Exotek is noticeably lighter and the quality is top notch. I can't really give a direct comparison to any of the +8 Durango chassis's because I never owned one. I like it but actually wish it was the normal/stock shorter length. The +8 takes away a bit of steering, like all longer chassis's do. I kind of got pretty accustomed to the more nimble feel of the stock/shorter chassis but in truth haven't done much setup change to bring more steering back, etc. I'm completely happy with it for the great price I paid and the quality. I purchased it at the time because my aluminum one was warped noticeably. On a flat surface, pushing down on the center of the car, both the front and rear ends of the car would still be about 1/8" or a bit more off the surface, the front kick-up bend was also showing alot of wear and thinning.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:23 AM   #15019
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Hi fredswain,

Could you tell me, on what surface will you run with this configuration?

Thx in advance
Mike
I'm currently setting this up for carpet since our dirt track closed down. I run MM3 with the rear shocks in front of the arms, inline steering, and 15 caster up front. No rear kick with 3 rear toe. This is the same setup I ran on dirt except I had the +8 Dimec20 chassis. I honestly never liked the +8 chassis. It could have been the flex or maybe it was having a hideous cab forward body. I don't know. I run the rear hubs all the way back so the drive shafts when viewed from above make a straight line. I have no idea why other people can't get rear grip and have to resort to MM4 or hubs forwards?
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Last edited by fredswain; 09-11-2014 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 09-10-2014, 04:46 PM   #15020
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Surely that car acts unpredictable, compared to a well setup MM4 car, My car in MM4 has loads of steering and the grip was pretty decent and jumps very well! I dont think any pros run MM3?
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #15021
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I don't care what the "pros" do. I don't copy others. I know how to think for myself. I've found that MM3 actually drives far more neutral and predictably than MM4. The problem with rear grip on MM cars is a based on weight on the drive wheels, not where that weight is located in relation to the rear wheels. Motor rotation compensation is a bandaid of sorts since it artificially transfers weight to a place where there should be a higher amount of static weight. I'd prefer the car not transfer any weight artificially. Here's something to think about. Why do the pros constantly change their setups if those setups are so good? How can everyone that ever tries some new setup sheet that gets posted suddenly claim that the new setup is the setup to have over and over again? The simple reality is that either setup doesn't matter at all (unlikely), or they are going back and forth between equally compromising setups (most plausible). They can't all be good. I find that with a good setup, going track to track requires small changes. If you need to start over, you should really question your entire setup technique.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:48 PM   #15022
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I run mm3 on dirt with my 210 as well. It's quite the opposite of unstable. It's about the easiest car I've driven outside of a 4wd. Without the excessive weight transfer that occurs in mm4, the car is much more predictable and stable. But like fred says, you gotta get the weight right first.

On the topic of a shorter chassis, I've actually been contemplating going back to a shorter chassis. I never really thought I gained anything going longer, and even though it's been over a year since I had the original length chassis, I remember it being more nimble. Once I get my cnc router churning out parts, one of the first things I plan on making is shorter chassis with the same layout as my current hand made g10 +8 chassis. Should be interesting.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:01 PM   #15023
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A guy on oople had some pimp side pods made to rotate the pack 90*, they were super trick
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:40 PM   #15024
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Since I'm setting the car up for carpet now, let's look at why MM3 is the perfect choice. First what is a carpet track but just a smooth onroad track with a few wooden jumps added. It's smooth and has a decent amount of grip. What are the fastest onroad cars? There are the pan cars (F1, LeMans, etc). These are all 2wd mid motor with a counter rotating motor in relation to the wheels. No anti squat or rear toe. They are solid rear axles after all but they don't have trouble getting moving. They also have inline steering with little to no front caster. The TC cars are also mid motor with inline steering and a counter rotating motor. Admittedly these are 4wd but the point is clear. The aggressive cars on smooth surfaces all have similar design elements. For off-road we just need to add the ability to land jumps. I run MM3 which is counter rotating to the wheels, inline steering, and only 15 front caster which is still more than onroad cars. I run a low ride height but have enough pack and spring rate to land jumps. Why would any of that be hard to drive and unpredictable?
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:49 PM   #15025
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Hey Fred, do you mean you have zero rear toe, or just no added toe in the hubs? What suspension blocks are you using? are you back to running an HRC setup since you probably don't need the additional traction of LRC on carpet? I would think most carpet would have a great deal more traction than dirt? Perhaps the indoor clay is close though as we sometimes run slicks. What are your thoughts? and thanks as always!
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Old 09-10-2014, 11:39 PM   #15026
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I'm running 1.5 rear toe per side with 0 rear kick. HRC blocks. Still playing with springs, pistons, oil, and camber link locations. Shorty battery length wise all the way back.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:02 AM   #15027
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Hello fredswain,


Thx for the answer!
I also like to run my 210v1 in MM3, if possible at all surfaces?

Actually, at the moment i'm in the planning phase of my own cf chassis, it will look like the infinitiy chassis for the b5m, from xfactory.
What im strugeling now is, to make a bend for the front kick up, maybe with some skid plates, or to make a seperate "bolt on" front piece out of aluminum.
I've some good ideas, for some extra tuning for this type of chassis!
We will see, how it works out....;o)
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Last edited by micholix; 09-11-2014 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:41 AM   #15028
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I don't care what the "pros" do. I don't copy others. I know how to think for myself. I've found that MM3 actually drives far more neutral and predictably than MM4. The problem with rear grip on MM cars is a based on weight on the drive wheels, not where that weight is located in relation to the rear wheels. Motor rotation compensation is a bandaid of sorts since it artificially transfers weight to a place where there should be a higher amount of static weight. I'd prefer the car not transfer any weight artificially. Here's something to think about. Why do the pros constantly change their setups if those setups are so good? How can everyone that ever tries some new setup sheet that gets posted suddenly claim that the new setup is the setup to have over and over again? The simple reality is that either setup doesn't matter at all (unlikely), or they are going back and forth between equally compromising setups (most plausible). They can't all be good. I find that with a good setup, going track to track requires small changes. If you need to start over, you should really question your entire setup technique.
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
Since I'm setting the car up for carpet now, let's look at why MM3 is the perfect choice. First what is a carpet track but just a smooth onroad track with a few wooden jumps added. It's smooth and has a decent amount of grip. What are the fastest onroad cars? There are the pan cars (F1, LeMans, etc). These are all 2wd mid motor with a counter rotating motor in relation to the wheels. No anti squat or rear toe. They are solid rear axles after all but they don't have trouble getting moving. They also have inline steering with little to no front caster. The TC cars are also mid motor with inline steering and a counter rotating motor. Admittedly these are 4wd but the point is clear. The aggressive cars on smooth surfaces all have similar design elements. For off-road we just need to add the ability to land jumps. I run MM3 which is counter rotating to the wheels, inline steering, and only 15 front caster which is still more than onroad cars. I run a low ride height but have enough pack and spring rate to land jumps. Why would any of that be hard to drive and unpredictable?
Sorry dude only asking a question!!! Surely if its faster all the pros would be doing its just my thoughts, i also can think for myself and setup a car but usually if your stuck you can have a look at their setups for a similar track as it wont be far away! Im from the UK and race on Carpet/Astro all the time, I run MM4 i rarely have to make to many setup changes, just some tracks may be more on power or more off power etc etc and need a slightly different setup, i then did the oOple invernational on dirt, apart from changing to rear motor, not much else changed on my setup!
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:00 AM   #15029
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I wasn't trying to be offensive in my response. I really hate the logic that if someone else does something that it must be for a good reason. That is a terrible assumption. The reality is that in any aspect of engineering (my job), copying is quite common while true innovation is quite rare. Thomas Andrews had a reason for designing the water tight bulkheads of the Titanic so that they only went up to E deck instead of A deck. There was a reason why he didn't use a larger more effective rudder. There was a reason why Captain Smith, the most experienced captain, ignored ice warnings and set a faster pace. There was a reason why Moron Thiokol engineers chose the o-ring material that they did for the Space Shuttle rocket boosters used on every launch up until the Challenger disaster. I could go on and on with examples of how the experts in their field did things that didn't always work out. Up until those events, why would anyone question them? Admittedly we are just talking about rc cars and tuning them but the point to be made is that you should never arbitrarily copy others if you believe you've got a way that works better. Incidentally rc cars today are essentially copies of each other. Look at competing designs over the past 25 years and you'll see similarities from brand to brand with parallel development of features over time. Most things are copies with the occasional new innovation added into the mix. That's essentially what I already said about engineering design.

My number one question to the people that think my techniques are weird is "have you tried it?". The answer is almost always no. Incidentally, those above that agree with me have tried it! It's not to say that it's the only way that it should be done. It is however proof that you don't have to do what others do to get good results. The quote in my signature sums up pretty well how I feel about things.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:43 PM   #15030
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Hey folks, just wondering what you're setting your front and rear camber at? Also, what is a good toe setting for the front? Thanks! Bruce

I have the version 1 buggy.
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