1/8 Offroad Buggy
12-10-2004, 09:03 AM
#991
There are what, a half a dozen companies out there with durable, fast, race-capable buggies, I'd just like to see proof that one is the "best" over another.
There are no bad cars anymore..choose on parts availability and personal preference!
There are no bad cars anymore..choose on parts availability and personal preference!
12-10-2004, 09:04 AM
#992
Maybe the proof is in National Championships, Look at the History of the Inferno Series, not one has dropped off from the previous.
12-10-2004, 09:12 AM
#993
Well, the MBX5 is current U.S. National Champion, Silver State Champion, and IFMAR World Champion; each of these races were won against a full fleet of MP777's.
According to your justification, wouldn't that make the MBX5 the best car?
At the IFMAR World Championships, a Ofna Hyper 7 TQ'd the event. and won the semi-final by a very convincing margin, against both the current world champion, and a full fleet of MP777's.
Wouldn't that make the Hyper 7 the best car?
The Jammin' X-1 has won two Indoor Championships, and the RC Pro Series National title. The Crono RS01 has won the European Championships, etc.
Many hobby stores stock different kinds of parts..and for someone who doesn't have a local hobby store who sells Kyosho parts, that may not be his best choice.
According to your justification, wouldn't that make the MBX5 the best car?
At the IFMAR World Championships, a Ofna Hyper 7 TQ'd the event. and won the semi-final by a very convincing margin, against both the current world champion, and a full fleet of MP777's.
Wouldn't that make the Hyper 7 the best car?
The Jammin' X-1 has won two Indoor Championships, and the RC Pro Series National title. The Crono RS01 has won the European Championships, etc.
Many hobby stores stock different kinds of parts..and for someone who doesn't have a local hobby store who sells Kyosho parts, that may not be his best choice.
12-10-2004, 09:41 AM
#994
Based on past championships the Inferno has dominated
12-10-2004, 09:54 AM
#995
As in 92-93, 94-95,96-97,98-99,00-01, 02-03, In 2004 3 of top 5 in championship race where as mugen placed 2 in top five, . Seems to be pretty dominating in World Championships
12-10-2004, 10:03 AM
#996
Tech Apprentice
Yes that certainly is dominating...but I think you missing Aarons point. Its like that annoying question that gets asked at least once a week in every forum..."Whats the best ????"
Basically there are 5-6 high quality cars that can win any race right out of the box. What the best one is really which is best for you.
As for Kyoshos dominance...well...I really cant say much about that since I am new to 1/8th nitro. Though if one manufacturer dominates it usually comes down to that team fielding a lot of drivers....and dont get me wrong, making a good product also.
Basically there are 5-6 high quality cars that can win any race right out of the box. What the best one is really which is best for you.
As for Kyoshos dominance...well...I really cant say much about that since I am new to 1/8th nitro. Though if one manufacturer dominates it usually comes down to that team fielding a lot of drivers....and dont get me wrong, making a good product also.
12-10-2004, 10:05 AM
#997
Exactly right.
And remember also that a smaller team obtaining a good result with fewer cars could suggest that their car is actually better than the bigger teams?
I've often heard it said - these big teams poach all the best drivers. At the end of the day, you can have the greatest car but without a good driver, the car will never get the result it deserves. Likewise, a good driver could be let down by a poor car. Somtimes a team can have both a good driver and a good car and be let down by sheer bad luck.
I think the only way you can prove which of the current crop of cars is best is by doing a thorough shoot-out style test. Example: Use half a dozen competent, non-sponsored drivers (if that's possible!!). Get each driver to spend an hour with each car on test and compare lap times and also offer their opinions on crucial factors like stability, acceleration, traction, steering, jumping, braking, durability etc. I think each driver's opinions will vary significantly, especailly if drivers are completely prevented from talking to each other during the shoot-out.
Based on the results, each driver would give every car a ranking, according to their preferences. The rankings could then be compared and if certain cars are repeatedly at (or near) the top, this would suggest that it is indeed a good/quick car. For the shoot out, the cars would run the same 'control spec' radios, servos, fuel, engines and tyres.
Another way of course is to scientifically test the cars. Measure braking distances, top speed, acceleration, g loadings on the car before they break traction etc. Calculate the power to weight ratios, test the transmissions for losses and work out efficiency, prove which suspension systems offer the greatest degree of control and then see if this data correlates with the each car's performance on the track, given mean averages etc obtained by a selection of control drivers (preferably ones with no frontal lobes).
It could be done. Perhaps not the bit about 'the frontal lobes'.
And remember also that a smaller team obtaining a good result with fewer cars could suggest that their car is actually better than the bigger teams?
I've often heard it said - these big teams poach all the best drivers. At the end of the day, you can have the greatest car but without a good driver, the car will never get the result it deserves. Likewise, a good driver could be let down by a poor car. Somtimes a team can have both a good driver and a good car and be let down by sheer bad luck.
I think the only way you can prove which of the current crop of cars is best is by doing a thorough shoot-out style test. Example: Use half a dozen competent, non-sponsored drivers (if that's possible!!). Get each driver to spend an hour with each car on test and compare lap times and also offer their opinions on crucial factors like stability, acceleration, traction, steering, jumping, braking, durability etc. I think each driver's opinions will vary significantly, especailly if drivers are completely prevented from talking to each other during the shoot-out.
Based on the results, each driver would give every car a ranking, according to their preferences. The rankings could then be compared and if certain cars are repeatedly at (or near) the top, this would suggest that it is indeed a good/quick car. For the shoot out, the cars would run the same 'control spec' radios, servos, fuel, engines and tyres.
Another way of course is to scientifically test the cars. Measure braking distances, top speed, acceleration, g loadings on the car before they break traction etc. Calculate the power to weight ratios, test the transmissions for losses and work out efficiency, prove which suspension systems offer the greatest degree of control and then see if this data correlates with the each car's performance on the track, given mean averages etc obtained by a selection of control drivers (preferably ones with no frontal lobes).
It could be done. Perhaps not the bit about 'the frontal lobes'.
12-10-2004, 10:24 AM
#998
To sum-up:
You could be a poor driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get poor results.
You could be an average driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get average results.
You could be a first rate driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get first rate results.
The common denominator is the driving - input on the sticks. Or trigger and steering wheel for most of you.
What influences you most should be the budget, spares availability for your region, the level of support from drivers at your most commonly frequented race tracks and your confidence in the manufacturer in question. For example it's pointless buying OFNA if you keep wishing you had bought a Mugen. Equally pointless buying Kyosho if you can't afford to buy a decent engine.
You could be a poor driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get poor results.
You could be an average driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get average results.
You could be a first rate driver and get any of the popular brand buggies and get first rate results.
The common denominator is the driving - input on the sticks. Or trigger and steering wheel for most of you.
What influences you most should be the budget, spares availability for your region, the level of support from drivers at your most commonly frequented race tracks and your confidence in the manufacturer in question. For example it's pointless buying OFNA if you keep wishing you had bought a Mugen. Equally pointless buying Kyosho if you can't afford to buy a decent engine.
12-10-2004, 10:39 AM
#999
None of that means a thing if your local dealers don't carry spares for the car. Kyosho also has a larger sponsorship budget then any other company, which means more sponsored drivers. More drivers, more chances to fill the A-main.
I'm not downing the K-cars, they're as good as any other. But if the other manufacturers sponsored as many drivers as Kyosho did that record would look alot different then it does.
I'm not downing the K-cars, they're as good as any other. But if the other manufacturers sponsored as many drivers as Kyosho did that record would look alot different then it does.
12-10-2004, 10:56 AM
#1000
I was only arguing the fact that the Inferno has been pretty dominant in IFMAR world championships, thats all.
12-10-2004, 11:01 AM
#1001
Tech Apprentice
Originally posted by VONEREFLEXR
I was only arguing the fact that the Inferno has been pretty dominant in IFMAR world championships, thats all.
I was only arguing the fact that the Inferno has been pretty dominant in IFMAR world championships, thats all.
12-10-2004, 03:12 PM
#1002
I didn't catch the whole conversation.. but, don't forget mechanical skills and driving.. cars are minor compared to that..
I do disagree with Aaron though.. there are only a few quality cars on the market.. not all the cars are racable at national races..
I do disagree with Aaron though.. there are only a few quality cars on the market.. not all the cars are racable at national races..
12-10-2004, 04:46 PM
#1003
there is also personal peference
i used to have mugen buggys first the mbx4xr then the mbx5 when the mbx5 got to be worn i sold it and bought a K2 just to try out and see if kyosho was better and have gotten alot faster with the kyosho than i was with the mugens
but i know another guy who had a mugen switched to kyosho and got slower apparently the mugen worked better with his driving style
i used to have mugen buggys first the mbx4xr then the mbx5 when the mbx5 got to be worn i sold it and bought a K2 just to try out and see if kyosho was better and have gotten alot faster with the kyosho than i was with the mugens
but i know another guy who had a mugen switched to kyosho and got slower apparently the mugen worked better with his driving style
12-11-2004, 01:08 AM
#1004
warpig - The Hyper 7, GS Storm, Jammin' X-1 CR, Crono RS01, Kyosho MP777, and Mugen MBX5 have all won or TQ'd very high profile events in the last two years. That's six cars capable of winning national-caliber races.
Personal preference leads people to senseless brand devotion, which is the direct cause of 100% of company flaming posts on the internet...and THAT was my point.
There is no "best" car; one might be better for someone versus someone else, but to call one the "best" is a unfairly blanket statement.
Personal preference leads people to senseless brand devotion, which is the direct cause of 100% of company flaming posts on the internet...and THAT was my point.
There is no "best" car; one might be better for someone versus someone else, but to call one the "best" is a unfairly blanket statement.
12-11-2004, 05:14 AM
#1005
Tech Apprentice
Might I add the Thunder Tiger S3 and the XRay XB8. I expect to see both in the winners circle soon.