Electric 1/8 Rules Debate
02-17-2009, 07:08 PM
#121
in my eyes a 20-30-45min. nitro amain is to long, the cars get to strung out and there are really only 2-3 guys running on the lead lap at the end of a long main plus all the cars that go out early due to being broke, blown motors and so forth, long mains can be rather pointless. look at electric when running a triple 5min amain the racing is fast and close,very close why? cause you only got 5mins to get it done wich in my eyes makes you a better driver and its intence. so why not just do 7min qualifiers and 12min. mains wether its a trippile or single main you get better racing and everbody can finish. not everbody wants to buy a 5-6 cell pack and the 10th scale guys would rather just use their 2 2cell packs rather than buying a 5-6 cell just to race. me personaly i would rather run a shorter main 12 min. mains are plenty of time to get to the front and win a race. my 2cents
Those "big leads" can evaporate in seconds, if a spotter doesn't see(or hear it in this case) or you make too many mistakes, you could loose your position. Plus, as I mentioned before, "TACTICS". You need good, solid and consistent laps. That's why the BIG races that the PROS run in are longer. It's a true test of a driver and car to run a longer main. If you don't like the longer race, don't participate, or take a vote on who wants to even do it.
02-17-2009, 07:41 PM
#122
Roar is going to do what ever Bob Novak wants.So just watch his setups and ideas and what he is using and thats probably going to be what the rules will be.After all Isnt Bob an ex president of roar?
02-17-2009, 07:58 PM
#124
I ran 15 minute mains half the summer on cheap ass zippy 4s 5000 packs ($75.00) with a Neu 1512 2.5d motor (2050kv) geared to embarrass any nitro that ever dared try pass me on a 200 foot straight. Again, it boils down to choosing efficient setups to make 15 minutes. I stand by my point that 15 minute mains are easy if you are not choosing overpowered motors. The 1515 1y, 1515 1d, 1512 2d, 1512 1.5d are all great motors but they are much more demanding. The <2000kv setups are more efficient and provide more than adequate power for racing with rpms between 28-36,000. These motors aren't any more rare or expensive. It just doesn't sound as fun to get a 1700kv 3d or even the 1700kv Losi motor. castle is targeting bashers and their initial motor kv's reflect that fact. Tekin is coming out with more reasonable lower kv motors.
The problem is that many folks are running into this class without getting any kind of guidance as to what really works vs just some mfg selling them stuff. I will bet you if most people had a choice of running 15-20 minutes with no need for a battery swap, they would. However, they get lulled initially into the faster setups. 4s 5000 is the standard because that is what is being pushed, not because that is what necessarily works the best. My 5s packs aren't much more expensive than my 4s packs and damn sure ain't paying $250 bucks for a lipo anymore.
I ran a 1512 1.5d (3300kv) on 4s and could barely make 12 minutes with a 4s 5000 pack. Fast. Fun. Inefficient. I did what it seems most people do which is pick the fastest motor they can find and then learn that a 1/8 buggy running 60mph on a track is a little impractical. As they get serious about racing, they start dialing back the motor till they find a motor that allows them to run right around 38-42mph and to do so efficiently for a long period of time. Higher voltage and lower kv.
To say that most people can't get 15 minutes is a cop out imho. It is kind of like someone complaining they can run a 6 minute 1/10 main because the 9000kv castle motor they put in their b44 keeps overheating. No duh. Get a slower motor. Problem solved.
The problem is that many folks are running into this class without getting any kind of guidance as to what really works vs just some mfg selling them stuff. I will bet you if most people had a choice of running 15-20 minutes with no need for a battery swap, they would. However, they get lulled initially into the faster setups. 4s 5000 is the standard because that is what is being pushed, not because that is what necessarily works the best. My 5s packs aren't much more expensive than my 4s packs and damn sure ain't paying $250 bucks for a lipo anymore.
I ran a 1512 1.5d (3300kv) on 4s and could barely make 12 minutes with a 4s 5000 pack. Fast. Fun. Inefficient. I did what it seems most people do which is pick the fastest motor they can find and then learn that a 1/8 buggy running 60mph on a track is a little impractical. As they get serious about racing, they start dialing back the motor till they find a motor that allows them to run right around 38-42mph and to do so efficiently for a long period of time. Higher voltage and lower kv.
To say that most people can't get 15 minutes is a cop out imho. It is kind of like someone complaining they can run a 6 minute 1/10 main because the 9000kv castle motor they put in their b44 keeps overheating. No duh. Get a slower motor. Problem solved.
many noob's are so focused on having a FAST motor with higher KV. That's the WRONG thing to do if you want to race. The idea here is to get a setup that's on par (not necessary faster than) with the nitro counterparts. If this is done, you can easily make 15min mains. Especially in the buggy class. I ran my mbx6 with a 1512 1Y (1850KV), a 5S 4000 zippy pack and ran 23 minutes without hitting the LVC (3.2v per cell). Every time i give noob recommendation to go with the lower KV setup, they always fear it won't be fast enough. Or, they just want it ripping fast JUST because they can do it. but they don't think about runtime and efficiency. So, I say Edumacated is right. If you can't make 15mins, your doing something wrong. AND, it is no extra cost to have a efficient system that can do 15mins. Matter of fact, it maybe cheaper.
02-17-2009, 08:06 PM
#125
If not, you guys are doing a great job explaining how to exclude the majority.
02-17-2009, 08:08 PM
#126
If the losi system right out of the box can not do 15mins on say a 4s 5000mah pack, then yes, something is wrong. that could be the reason why so many folks are NOT running the losi setup. Majorty of folks is running CC Moster and Nue motor setups. This setup has been the most proven efficient setup.
02-17-2009, 08:15 PM
#128
My MBX6 is brand new, TEKNO 1515/1y that never runs over 160*, car weighs 7.9lb, and I can dump at 13-14min.
02-17-2009, 08:20 PM
#129
I CAN run 15min, but not driving balls out to win. I'm talking WIN the race not preserve battery to see how long of a runtime I can claim I get. We should be talking about how fast you CAN dump, not how long can you make the battery last.
My MBX6 is brand new, TEKNO 1515/1y that never runs over 160*, car weighs 7.9lb, and I can dump at 13-14min.
My MBX6 is brand new, TEKNO 1515/1y that never runs over 160*, car weighs 7.9lb, and I can dump at 13-14min.
A guy by the name of Ryan at our track is winning 2nd to 3rd place in the EXPERT class running 15mins. To get 2nd or 3rd in expert class, you GOTTA be running your tail off racing. Also, the tekno crew run their tails off in the expert class with good results (2nd to 4th places in the A-main).
02-17-2009, 08:28 PM
#130
You can get 15 minutes with a 4s setup if you choose the right motor. Again, typically 2000kv or less. The 1512 2.5d will easily run 15 minutes on 4s 5000. Most of the people running 4s are running higher kv motors which is why they can't make 15 minutes consistently. You don't need crazy rpm's to go fast. I geared my 2.5d a tad faster than a nitro on 4s and it ran flawlessly.
All you need on a track is 30,000-35,000 rpm. Your system will run cool and efficient. Just gear it up a tad if you want to be a little faster than a nitro. 15 minute main and a minute or two of warm up laps should be absolutely no problem.
02-17-2009, 08:29 PM
#131
Not long ago, the debate here was how many of us could make 20 minutes. IIRC, pretty much everyone said they could make 15... some reported 20 or better, and most guys were right in the middle @17-18 minute range.
I agree that 15 minutes is not hard to do with a "good" setup such as a 4s 5000mah and 1800-2100kv motor. Plenty of us have run 20min races with this type of setup, without "sunday driving" the whole race. For a long time, I've been an advocate of efficient setups that can do long runtimes, and I've done a 20 min main on a 4s 4800mah pack a couple of times.
But,
I'm on board with the 10minute mains. Single main for club racing.... triple mains where that's appropriate.
Here's why:
I don't think we should go down the road of making efficiency or battery choices a critical part of racing 1/8 electrics.
This is NOT like the old days of running 4 min races on 1200scr packs. That was not done intentionally because it made for great racing, but rather because that was the limit of the technology. Dumping on the last lap is not cool.... not then, not now.
Today, we are running packs that do not like being dumped.
So why would we want to have rules made to push us to the limit of runtime?????? Either by race length, or limiting batteries... I think it's a bad idea.
I like the idea of running longer races. But even more, I like the idea that I can take some hot laps.... and not worry about dumping on the last lap.
And... 10 minute races opens up about any sane setup... which is a GOOD thing when you have a bunch of local buddies all jumping on the bandwagon and getting all sorts of equipment. Now, my buddy who has a 2600kv motor won't be coming to me with all his "problems" after he dumped at the 14min mark.
I agree that 15 minutes is not hard to do with a "good" setup
such as a 4s 5000mah and 1800-2100kv motor. Plenty of us have run 20min races with this type of setup, without "sunday driving" the whole race. For a long time, I've been an advocate of efficient setups that can do long runtimes, and I've done a 20 min main on a 4s 4800mah pack a couple of times. But,
I'm on board with the 10minute mains. Single main for club racing.... triple mains where that's appropriate.Here's why:
I don't think we should go down the road of making efficiency or battery choices a critical part of racing 1/8 electrics.
This is NOT like the old days of running 4 min races on 1200scr packs. That was not done intentionally because it made for great racing, but rather because that was the limit of the technology. Dumping on the last lap is not cool.... not then, not now.
Today, we are running packs that do not like being dumped.
So why would we want to have rules made to push us to the limit of runtime?????? Either by race length, or limiting batteries... I think it's a bad idea.I like the idea of running longer races. But even more, I like the idea that I can take some hot laps.... and not worry about dumping on the last lap.
And... 10 minute races opens up about any sane setup... which is a GOOD thing when you have a bunch of local buddies all jumping on the bandwagon and getting all sorts of equipment. Now, my buddy who has a 2600kv motor won't be coming to me with all his "problems" after he dumped at the 14min mark.
02-17-2009, 08:29 PM
#132
inefficient number ONE for you, you are running a 1515 in a buggy. that's wasting power right there. most efficient motor for buggy is 1512. and when i say 15mins, i mean RACING YOUR TAIL OFF 15 minutes!!! A guy by the name of Ryan at our track is winning 2nd to 3rd place in the EXPERT class running 15mins. To get 2nd or 3rd in expert class, you GOTTA be running your tail off racing. Also, the tekno crew run their tails off in the expert class with good results (2nd to 4th places in the A-main).
A guy by the name of Ryan at our track is winning 2nd to 3rd place in the EXPERT class running 15mins. To get 2nd or 3rd in expert class, you GOTTA be running your tail off racing. Also, the tekno crew run their tails off in the expert class with good results (2nd to 4th places in the A-main).I don't know what to tell ya? My buddy I'm coming with just got on the HoBao B team, and I can pretty regularly post a better 20 lap time than him.
I'm mainly running the 1515 so I can heatsink it to the chassis, but still...
02-17-2009, 08:33 PM
#133
more... lol
Also, I saw first hand that sometimes a track just hates electrics... and magically sucks runtime right into the bluegroove. At the RC Clash.... we all seemed to struggle with it more than normal.. and I can't explain it either. The race director cut the main down to 12 minutes as a result. My car used up more mah per minute than I have ever seen before... even though it was only like 80* out, and my motor and esc temps were good, etc.
Also, I saw first hand that sometimes a track just hates electrics... and magically sucks runtime right into the bluegroove. At the RC Clash.... we all seemed to struggle with it more than normal.. and I can't explain it either. The race director cut the main down to 12 minutes as a result. My car used up more mah per minute than I have ever seen before... even though it was only like 80* out, and my motor and esc temps were good, etc.
02-17-2009, 08:37 PM
#134
Hey are you running somewhere Sat? I think some of the SB crew is coming down to Rev Saturday.
I don't know what to tell ya? My buddy I'm coming with just got on the HoBao B team, and I can pretty regularly post a better 20 lap time than him.
I'm mainly running the 1515 so I can heatsink it to the chassis, but still...
I don't know what to tell ya? My buddy I'm coming with just got on the HoBao B team, and I can pretty regularly post a better 20 lap time than him.
I'm mainly running the 1515 so I can heatsink it to the chassis, but still...
what time do rev start racing on Saturday?
02-17-2009, 08:40 PM
#135
Basically, I agree with a lot of the rules ideas on some level.... like the limits on battery weight. That's a more effective rule than just limiting by dimensions or voltage.
But in the end, I don't think we need battery rules at all. The "market" will legislate itself... stupid setups will get weeded out... Darwin style.
But in the end, I don't think we need battery rules at all. The "market" will legislate itself... stupid setups will get weeded out... Darwin style.
