Question on sensored/sensorless 1/10 vs 1/8th scale
11-03-2008, 07:07 AM
#1
Question on sensored/sensorless 1/10 vs 1/8th scale
Confusing title, I know....
It seems the sensored series is best for 1/10th vehicles, as it gives a bit better throttle control, as I read it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
But it seems most 1/8th buggies are sensorless setups? Is there just not a sensored 1/8th version out yet, or are there other advantages I'm just not acknowledging?
It seems the sensored series is best for 1/10th vehicles, as it gives a bit better throttle control, as I read it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
But it seems most 1/8th buggies are sensorless setups? Is there just not a sensored 1/8th version out yet, or are there other advantages I'm just not acknowledging?
11-03-2008, 11:07 AM
#2
I think advancements in ESC technology is making sensors less important. I run 2Kv motors on 1/8th scales with Mamba Monsters & have NO cogging on 4 to 6 cells.
11-03-2008, 12:37 PM
#3
I beleive another factor is that the 1/8th scales have looser drivetrains (that is, the spur gear can be moved a lot more before the car moves than on a 1/10th car) giving the controller more opportunity to get the motor spinning before hitting any resistance from the car.
11-03-2008, 02:21 PM
#4
from what I am seeing with my vehicle usage, the "cogging" effect is basically non-existant now on my Mamba Monster ESC with either the Neu 1512 2.5D motor I have or the Medusa 2000Kv 60mm V2 motor I have. I did however need to change the timing setting on the medusa to low (5%) versus lowest (0%) on the Neu. Also, using a bit of punch control (10% - 20%) made a world of difference and I can nearly flip the vehicle on command still.
I think the place where its going to matter most for a sensored design is onroad carpet with spec motors as that is where I hear about the sensorless issues.
I also have had no issues with sensorless 5700Kv motor in a 4wd buggy and 2wd truck, as well as 2wd buggy.
You can use the novak systems in 1/8 scale conversions, I would just go with the lowest Kv motor you can find from them. But they will work.
I think the place where its going to matter most for a sensored design is onroad carpet with spec motors as that is where I hear about the sensorless issues.
I also have had no issues with sensorless 5700Kv motor in a 4wd buggy and 2wd truck, as well as 2wd buggy.
You can use the novak systems in 1/8 scale conversions, I would just go with the lowest Kv motor you can find from them. But they will work.
11-03-2008, 02:40 PM
#5
Confusing title, I know....
It seems the sensored series is best for 1/10th vehicles, as it gives a bit better throttle control, as I read it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
But it seems most 1/8th buggies are sensorless setups? Is there just not a sensored 1/8th version out yet, or are there other advantages I'm just not acknowledging?
It seems the sensored series is best for 1/10th vehicles, as it gives a bit better throttle control, as I read it. (please correct me if I'm wrong)
But it seems most 1/8th buggies are sensorless setups? Is there just not a sensored 1/8th version out yet, or are there other advantages I'm just not acknowledging?
11-03-2008, 04:27 PM
#7
Pretty soon Novak won't be the only sensored 1/8 system. But the reason other companies will go sensored capable, is not because it's better.... but because it's perceived by some to be better so they want to appeal to that crowd.
1/8 buggies are big, heavy, and 4wd.... so the throttle feel and initial smoothness is not quite as important anyway relative to other types of cars.
1/8 buggies are big, heavy, and 4wd.... so the throttle feel and initial smoothness is not quite as important anyway relative to other types of cars.
11-03-2008, 04:32 PM
#8
I don't think it matters much. The cogging on my 1/8 is very minimal. I have to make it cog by basically trying to make the buggy crawl. Otherwise it just takes off instantly very smoothly. I have the new v3 Monster Mamba and I haven't even tried it out yet and people are saying it is even smoother. If that is the case, then we really don't need sensors. The only time I have noticed cogging during a race with my car is occassionally if I spin out and the car rolls backwards it can cog a bit.
11-03-2008, 05:17 PM
#9
My initial thought.....
With the 4s & 5s batteries 1/8th scalers are using, they are simply socking it with enough voltage to overcome any potential cogging. And Edumakated's mention that he has to make it crawl (running at essentially a lower voltage) to make it cog reinforces my thinking.
With the 4s & 5s batteries 1/8th scalers are using, they are simply socking it with enough voltage to overcome any potential cogging. And Edumakated's mention that he has to make it crawl (running at essentially a lower voltage) to make it cog reinforces my thinking.
11-03-2008, 05:30 PM
#10
from what I am seeing with my vehicle usage, the "cogging" effect is basically non-existant now on my Mamba Monster ESC with either the Neu 1512 2.5D motor I have or the Medusa 2000Kv 60mm V2 motor I have. I did however need to change the timing setting on the medusa to low (5%) versus lowest (0%) on the Neu. Also, using a bit of punch control (10% - 20%) made a world of difference and I can nearly flip the vehicle on command still.
I think the place where its going to matter most for a sensored design is onroad carpet with spec motors as that is where I hear about the sensorless issues.
I also have had no issues with sensorless 5700Kv motor in a 4wd buggy and 2wd truck, as well as 2wd buggy.
You can use the novak systems in 1/8 scale conversions, I would just go with the lowest Kv motor you can find from them. But they will work.
I think the place where its going to matter most for a sensored design is onroad carpet with spec motors as that is where I hear about the sensorless issues.
I also have had no issues with sensorless 5700Kv motor in a 4wd buggy and 2wd truck, as well as 2wd buggy.
You can use the novak systems in 1/8 scale conversions, I would just go with the lowest Kv motor you can find from them. But they will work.
11-03-2008, 07:32 PM
#11
The sensorless controllers work very well in 1/8th because the motors are not forced to be built around ROAR (Novak) specifications. 1/10th would be that way too if the current motor rules were not in place. I have run my 1/10th sedan for years on sensorless systems (before novak made a motor). The very first generation of controllers were a little choppy, but ever since then they work great. The problem came in with the ROAR spec motors and their non-ideal electrical and magnetic qualities. People have reported similar problems running sensorless controllers and novak's HV motors. I have seen no problems with sensorless and non-roar type motors. The design of the current 1/8th scale motors is close to ideal for sensorless commutation, except for the Novak HV motors. They are scaled up versions of their 1/10th motors. The sintered rotor upgrade did wonders for the ROAR type motors and their ability to be driven with sensorless controllers, but they still don't work as well as motors such as Neu, Aveox, Hacker, Lehner, Medusa, Mega or many others.
11-04-2008, 04:19 AM
#12
The Medusa feels like it has more low end. The Neu is more efficient and as it has a slightly higher KV, alittle more top end to it. I am keeping the Medusa I have since its cheaper, figure alittle extra wallet money. No knock on the Neu though, its one heck of a motor. So to sum it up, it was a monetary issue pretty much.
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