Roar Brushless motor debate thread.
01-09-2008, 05:39 AM
#46
Here's the last update regarding the Cactus Classic. Looks to me like they have it figured out 
UDATE 01/05/08: Motor and battery usage per class:
Stock: 27t 24 degree brushed motor (ROAR Spec), 13.5 Brushless, Standard 6 cell battery 7.2 volts, up to any "Hard Cased" 7.4 volt LiPo.
SRS: 19t brushed motor (ROAR Spec), 10.5 Brushless, Standard 6 cell sub c batteries, Any "Hard cased" 7.4 volt Lipo.
Modified: Any brushed motor, any brushless motor, Sub C standard cells any MAH, Any "Hard Cased" 7.4 volt Lipo.
Old Dude: 19t Brushed, 10.5 Brushless, 6 cell standard sub c batteries, any "Hard Cased" 7.4 LiPo.
ALL CLASSES MUST MEET ROAR SPECIFICATIONS FOR WEIGHT. ALL MOTORS MUST MEET ROAR SPECIFICATIONS. TECH WILL BE IN FORCE AT THIS YEARS CACTUS. THERE IS NO WEIGHT REDUCTION FOR CARS USING LIPO BATTERIES. Lipo fire protective sacks or sachels (LiPo Sack) are required for charging.
UDATE 01/05/08: Motor and battery usage per class:
Stock: 27t 24 degree brushed motor (ROAR Spec), 13.5 Brushless, Standard 6 cell battery 7.2 volts, up to any "Hard Cased" 7.4 volt LiPo.
SRS: 19t brushed motor (ROAR Spec), 10.5 Brushless, Standard 6 cell sub c batteries, Any "Hard cased" 7.4 volt Lipo.
Modified: Any brushed motor, any brushless motor, Sub C standard cells any MAH, Any "Hard Cased" 7.4 volt Lipo.
Old Dude: 19t Brushed, 10.5 Brushless, 6 cell standard sub c batteries, any "Hard Cased" 7.4 LiPo.
ALL CLASSES MUST MEET ROAR SPECIFICATIONS FOR WEIGHT. ALL MOTORS MUST MEET ROAR SPECIFICATIONS. TECH WILL BE IN FORCE AT THIS YEARS CACTUS. THERE IS NO WEIGHT REDUCTION FOR CARS USING LIPO BATTERIES. Lipo fire protective sacks or sachels (LiPo Sack) are required for charging.
01-09-2008, 05:58 AM
#47
I'm another vote to just run them altogether in off-road. Last weekend I just drove almost 2 hours to a track where there were only 5 stock and 3 mod trucks. I thought what a waste - it could have had been one large main instead of 2 small ones.
It was a typical indoor track and the stock trucks were just as fast as the mod trucks. Mod trucks ran high 16s and stock ran low 17s. There were 13.5s and tuned CO27s which performed not unlike a mod motor except for top end. And of course the 'new' guys in stock got lapped repeatedly too.
Its time to run brushed/brushless/stock/19t/27t/13.5/10.5/mod into one class and make qualifying mean something again.
Why would I spend $225 on a truck, $250 on a transmitter, $250 in batteries, $150 esc so I could install a $29 motor with f/n bushings in it and then gear it until it practically burns up?
I doubt ROAR would make such a bold move, but its long overdue.
It was a typical indoor track and the stock trucks were just as fast as the mod trucks. Mod trucks ran high 16s and stock ran low 17s. There were 13.5s and tuned CO27s which performed not unlike a mod motor except for top end. And of course the 'new' guys in stock got lapped repeatedly too.
Its time to run brushed/brushless/stock/19t/27t/13.5/10.5/mod into one class and make qualifying mean something again.
Why would I spend $225 on a truck, $250 on a transmitter, $250 in batteries, $150 esc so I could install a $29 motor with f/n bushings in it and then gear it until it practically burns up?
I doubt ROAR would make such a bold move, but its long overdue.
01-09-2008, 06:48 AM
#48
Sorry for the tripple post.
01-09-2008, 06:49 AM
#49
either the site or the computer is running slowly.
01-09-2008, 06:49 AM
#50
I have heard comments like these often enough, and usually its from guys that run in the mod class.
My thought is the same as many others.
19t or 10.5 is a very competitive class that should be all by its self.
Stock is for beginners.
Mod is for experianced.
Properly tuned or not, a 19t motor will beat a 27t, they are not compariable at all. Mod motors are faster than 19t and they are not compariable either.
It would be un fair to expect any driver to be competitive in 19t with a 27t.
It would be un fair to expect any driver to be competitive in mod with a 19T.
19t is the perfect class for the people who want more out of there buggy or truck than a 27t, but are not ready for mod.
With that in mind and on a side note you cant just have stock and mod. Picture going from 27t then competing with 12t's.
I have lipos, 10.5, 7.5 and 6.5, 2 GTB esc's, a newer rooster esc and a out of the package, stock, $29 spec komodo dragon. For what ever the 19t is my favorite motor to run. I can keep up with the faster guys, I am faster than all of the 27t, and I get my ass handed to me by the mod class. With the 19t I can also clear all of the large jumps, including the big doubles if I get enough traction and the right lines. 27t I cant clear any of them.
I agree there needs to be a 27t class. It promotes practice and learning how to drive your buggy correctly. Mod is awsome and super fast, but its not for everyone. 19t is fast, competitive, and with the proper gearing and set up, not to mention having some skills you can go almost as fast as the mod guys.
01-09-2008, 08:59 AM
#51
The reason 4wd mod is taking off is because it is only ran as a mod class. Splitting classes by motor size is why electric is not as popular as nitro in a lot of areas.
01-09-2008, 09:01 AM
#52
Seems that BL stock should be @15.5 turn... too bad Novak didnt get it right the first time. Just based on the forums/feedback... the 13.5 is too fast, 17.5 maybe too slow so scrap both and split the difference, IMO.
I just bought my first 13.5 so my kid can run it this summer... but I would still like to see 15.5 or 17.5 win out.
I just bought my first 13.5 so my kid can run it this summer... but I would still like to see 15.5 or 17.5 win out.
01-09-2008, 09:06 AM
#53
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It seems in offroad at least in my area Brushless and brushed is not a huge debate. Everyone just happens to run mod and non of the tracks care if you run brushed or brushless and then don't care what batteries you run from lipo to NIMH. Since this is happening the electric buggy class has growntwice as large as last year.
In offroad is just seems like it don't matter what you run for motors and packs because it is all about tires and driving as it is easy to overpower a track with todays motors and packs.
In offroad is just seems like it don't matter what you run for motors and packs because it is all about tires and driving as it is easy to overpower a track with todays motors and packs.
01-09-2008, 09:07 AM
#54
You can't get rid of stock completely.... too many club racers run every week because they are competitive in stock.
We would lose some racers without stock... IMO. And there would be a huge gap between novice and mod. I know I don't want to have novice-level mixed in the mod heats....
(assuming that there is more than 4-5 cars ave per class, etc)
We would lose some racers without stock... IMO. And there would be a huge gap between novice and mod. I know I don't want to have novice-level mixed in the mod heats....
(assuming that there is more than 4-5 cars ave per class, etc)
01-09-2008, 09:12 AM
#55
It seems in offroad at least in my area Brushless and brushed is not a huge debate. Everyone just happens to run mod and non of the tracks care if you run brushed or brushless and then don't care what batteries you run from lipo to NIMH. Since this is happening the electric buggy class has growntwice as large as last year.
In offroad is just seems like it don't matter what you run for motors and packs because it is all about tires and driving as it is easy to overpower a track with todays motors and packs.
In offroad is just seems like it don't matter what you run for motors and packs because it is all about tires and driving as it is easy to overpower a track with todays motors and packs.
btw, I think 13.5 is too fast, after seeing one in a T4 pulling (big) wheelies at will on pavement. But...
The good thing about the 13.5 is that we could scrap the stupid intermediate "19t" class. There isn't much difference between 13.5 and 19 so get rid of it.
01-09-2008, 10:15 AM
#56
That is the most competitive class, at least in this area.
Going from stock directly to mod, dosnt make that much sence. If you really dont like the 19t class, dont compete in it.
01-09-2008, 11:39 AM
#58
Yes, I have a 13.5 brushless (2 lrp & 1 Novak). Each has a different feel and each to his own opinion. But I do not agree that brushless is faster than brushed (cause i got my butt handed to me by a brushed motor). Also, I don't remember who said it but given the size of the track and the driver a 13.5 can hang with a 10.5 (did it yesterday), yes it was faster in the straight but i did pass him back in the infield. This 17.5 I keep on hearing about sounds "STUPID" if i remember correctly the first time i heard about it, it was for rock crawlers. Now, there going to make us run rock crawler motors in a race of speed...................
01-09-2008, 03:28 PM
#60
The tough think about going by skill level is the race director's un-enviable job of telling people what their skill level is. The fast intermediate guy won't like being told he has to bump up to the inevitable beating he will take for a long time to come in the expert class. Nor will a self proclaimed expert like being told he's in the way and needs to bump down. It also introduces the same problem as before; splitting up the group so much that there is no A, B, C mains, just 3 under attended A mains.