Brushed / Brushless setups
 

hey guys, i just got a new 1/10 RC truck. im having trouble deciding whether or not to go brushless or brushed. infact i dont even know what ive got at the moment (its completely stock)

i realise ESC sometimes have to change along with motors but i dont want to spend too much but still want a bit more power.

the pictures attached show you the setup.

the motor is a RS540 Hi-torque electric motor.
the ESC is a HSP 3018 precision ESC

What should i do? What is the best thing to do?:ha:

Attachment 300365Attachment 300366Attachment 300367

Say hello to a can of worms asking a question like that ;) You're going to get more than a few opinions.

Since I'm first, I would progress like this...
First, get good batteries and a good charger. If you go NIMH get good IB4200's. I like to have 2 packs so you can drive and charge at the same time. If you go lipo get MaxAmps stuff just remember you don't need 10,000mah lipo's and you want them to fit in the tray.

Second, get a good ESC (speed control) I WAY prefer the Mamba Max. You can tune it on your computer and it hasd little to no heat issues. You can use it with brushless or brushed motors.

Third, get a good motor. If you like brushed motors I'd go with the Orion V2 motors. I don't like brushed (dirty, replacing brushes, springs, clean and oil bearings, yuck) I have been using the Ammo line or brushless motors and realy like them. I use the original Mamba Max 5700KV also but it's toooooo fast for my local track. I would get the 4600KV MM motor, or a 3900KV ammo for starters.

Fourth, GET SPARE PARTS!!! a-arms, shock towers, shock shafts, steering knuckles, wheel nuts, Ball studs and ends.

Fifth, get street tires, dirt tires, and racing tires.

You can go a little at a time to spread out the cost.

Hope you enjoy.

hey mate. thanks for the detailed feedback. (im expecting more from others dont worry)

i just found myself a mamba max ESC and CMS 7700 motor package in the net for about $182.00 AUD does that sound like a good deal? how would a stock stantard Nicd 1800mah battery go about powering that setup?
and also is it easy enough to install yourself?

And another thing my motor only has 2 leads running out of or into it, the mamba motor has three will that effect it?

There is a big difference in the motors. A two wire motor is a brushed motor. It has magnets in the case and windings on the rotor. It uses constant direct current to turn the motor.

A three wire motor is a brushless motor. It has fixed magnets on the rotor and has windings in the can. It uses pulsed direct current to spin the rotor, and takes a much different ESC.

Brushless motors are the better way to go. They are typically 80% or more efficient, versus 60% or less for brushed. That means less heat and more run time for two motors doing the same work.

The Mamba Max ESC will do both brushed and brushless motors.

The 7700KV (<--- this motor is the number of RPM it turns per volt) is way overkill for the average driver, your car will most likely go over 50mph with a motor like this. Not to mention your batteries will go away just as fast.

The lower the KV the more manageable the car will be. I would recomend the 4600KV/MM combo. Or it would be cheaper to just buy the MM ESC, and get a less expensive Ammo motor like this one from towerhobbies.com http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLWZ4&P=7 it is 3900KV and will give you good speed and excellent run time.

As for batteries, 1500mah is realy insufficient for anything you want to perform well. You want to get up to or above 3500mah. I like the IB4200 battery I bought for my son's truck for less than $50 USD.

Installation is not difficult, but you will want to be able to do some soldering. The connectors on the battery and motor are key. You'll want Deans Ultra connectors for the battery, charger, ESC, and I like to use them for the motor as well. If you are creative you can wire the ESC deans to be able to switch from brushed to brushless without any changes.

So, steer clear of the 7700KV, and step up the batts.

Well mate you have helped me HEAPS, i am definantly going the brushless setup due to your educated input and most likely the mamba max setup.

i love the idea of pluging it into the computer etc.

however i will be purchasing new batteries firstly then will buy the ESC by itself as u said it can run any motor. most likely pick up a cheap little 4700kV brushless of any brand at the hobby shop.

but i have one more question.

with the mamba max what are its power restrictions as far as what power motor can it handle?


but thankyou again, you have helped a newcomer heaps. hope to hear from you again soon.;)

Forget, there is another lower cost option on the horizon. Castle Creations is also coming out with a slightly more economic version of the Mamba Max, it's the sidewinder. Towerhobbies.com has it listed for $76.99 and due mid january. I have seen spec's somewhere but I've lost my "favorites" awhile back so I'll have to see if I can locate the thread/forum it was on.

The Mamba max will do any turn of brushed motor, and I'm not sure if there is a motor that is too high of a KV for it around. It will do 12 cells of nimh or 4S lipo, but some people have had problems with the 4S right off the charger. I would say 12 cells nimh and 3S lipo.

A few words of warning though, the faster you make your car go the harder it is on the drive train. The faster it goes the harder it is to control. Crashing fast breaks more parts than crashing slow.

The MM will do any brushless motor, but there are some motors it doesn't work well with. Mostly it's the sensored style motors like the novak line. You can recognize these motors by the extra sensor lead coming out of it.

Getting good batt's first is a good idea. Better batt's will make the biggest difference with the stock setup. It will be harder on the original esc, but if you plan to replace it, who cares if it burns up eventually. I would do the ESC next, it will even make the original motor feel a little more powerful (less voltage drop), connectors will help a little too. You can run the stock motor till the brushes burn out then toss it and get the brushless motor.

Here's a link to Castle Creations web site with the spec's and tuning guide for the MM http://www.castlecreations.com/products/mamba_max.html . Do you have a link to the RC you are running?

well mate there was an existing link to the site however this item has been discontinued. was there any particular reason you wanted the link for? SPECS? Pics?

Yah, curious about the drive train. You have to be careful about how much power you put in sometimes.

Does it have a slipper cluch? Does it have a center differential? Does it use geared diff's or ball diffs? Axles plastic or metal? Dogbone or u-joint? Are the diff outdrives plastic or metal? Does it use bearings or bushings?

If you arn't sure what I'm talking about in any of the questions, I can try to be more specific.

well mate i know a bit about that stuff. the diff is aluminium, it has dogbone steering shafts, aluminium axles.
im sure it has geared diffs and uses bearings as opposed to bushings. so yeahh it would help if you were a bit more specific as to your curiosity. im not keen for too much more power i just wanna get about 55 - 60km/h thats about 30 - 40m/h so yeah

i have another wuestion before i go buying batteries. i have a pretty useless standard charger that came with the car. should i buy a new charger when i get batteries? or will 4600mah NiMH charge adequately on that charger? its output is
9V=250mA 2.25VA. fingers crossed i dont have to get a new charger but if i have to its all part of the sport haha.

i have found batteries that are 8.4v and 3700mah and NiMH will my car ba able to run that? the ESC does not specify and restrictions for NiCD or NiMH so yeah? let me know exactly what type of battery i should buy.

thankyou again for your help

Hope to hear from you soon.

You could continue to use that charger, it is an 8 hour charger? 250ma is a very light charge, most people use chargers more in the 5 amp range (less than 1 hour, more like 20 minutes) and some go higher. I'll keep an eye out for a good cheap charger. Not that hard to find.

Your charger will only charge 6cell (7.2v) batteries though. I know you said 9v for the charger, but you have to have a higher voltage than the battery itself to properly charge it. The 8.4 batt you mentioned is 7cell, you may have fitting issues with the battery tray. As for the ESC, the original will most likly handle the 8.4V, and the MM would for sure (12cells nimh).

Drive train sounds good, metal parts and all. So you should be able to get above 40mph without issue. My only question not awnsered is if it has a slipper clutch? That is a method of mounting the spur gear (the big gear the motors pinion gear turns) so that it can "slip" if the engine/drivetrain is spinning fast when it lands from a jump. It will take some of the force of the impact off the drive train and save parts.

The hobby does become spendy unless you have extreme self control. Which you won't find too much of on forums like these :)

im not too sure how to tell if i have a slipper clutch. but i will find out for you. with batteries i want a 7.2 volt 3700mah NiMH it says its a 6 cell, would it be all good to use my charger for that type of battery

i have also found a pack on ebay in australia for 2 x 7.2V 3300mAh NiMh batteries with an automatic charger. heres the link to check it out. im pretty happy with how it looks but thought id check with you before i buy. i realise i will probably miss this sale, but there will be others.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2-x-7-2V-3300...ayphotohosting

i realise i will have to spend money to not compromise on quality. i have no problem with that i tend to get really involved in my hobbies haha.

thankyou for keeping your eye out for a good cheap one.


hope to hear from you soon.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Four-7-2V-3800mA...QQcmdZViewItem

How much more would it cost to have something like this shipped to Australia?
You already have a charger right? (the one you mentioned?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/IMAX-B6-6-cell-L...QQcmdZViewItem

I couldn't find this on ebay.au but it seems to ba an austrailian seller???
I know this is propably more than you realy want to spend on a charger (and yes with the 6 cell batts you can continue to us your current charger) but in the long run it is money well spent.

With a charger like this and 2-3 nimh packs you could just about run the truck continually. Also later on when you are truely addicted and switch up to lipo batteries you won't have to buy another charger. This one ^ comes with a temp probe which would give you some peace of mind if you are charging the batteries unattended (I assume you do this now, with a charger that takes 8 hours). The drawback is you need a 12 volt power supply. I havn't found anything comaparable for the price though. Mabey I can locate a cheap power supply? I use a small gel cell automotive battery and a 5 amp charger.

I'll keep looking when I find some more free time.

yeah charger looks great. it doesnt have a tamiya style plug? im guessijng they are just a thing u buy. really cheaply.

im getting about 15 min out of my battery at the moment..and about 8mins of useful power. thats nothing. sorry about the australian link.

ill buy 2 Nimh 7.2 volt 3700mah bats and a charger that can take them this week. im not sure if my current charger will handle them. they said they need to be charged at 3 amps.

so yeah man thanks for looking.after this week i can start looking for an ESC :) (i am deffo getting a mamba max) haha
is ther any other types of ESC's that run both brushless and brushed motors? for a bit less?

You should realy get rid of the tamiya plugs. Deans connectors are the standard. Tamiya plugs will not support the amps a high powered system can pull. They melt down, it's a real bummer to deal with. Here's the deans I'm referring to, these are generic (not deans brand) but they work well enough and are cost effective...http://cgi.ebay.com.au/10-sets-of-De...QQcmdZViewItem Also the chargers basically all come with deans now or no plugs at all so you can install your own. (the one I recomended comes with deans and some connectors to do reciever packs, aligator clips, glow plug starters, ect)

3 amps is what it takes to realy get the batts charged to full capacity. The 250ma charger will charge them just fine. Also the higher the ma rating of the battery, the longer it will take to charge them.

The austrailian link is cool, it's good to see what is available to you. I forget that we have such an abundance of options here in the states.

Do you have a local hobbie shop (lhs) near by? Ebay can be more expensive than the sales some LHS's can have.

I'm sticking with the MM, you could potentially spend less on another ESC but you could end up regretting the choise later.

I'm supprised more guys havn't chimed in here? I think it's too much reading at this point:lol: Mabey when a new page starts, but then I'm sure they won't have read back any :rolleyes: In case you are woundering why I'm taking the time, it's because I have a vested interest. I want RC to stay around, and the only way that happens is to have guy's who love it, out there helping out other guy's who are just getting into it. Just take time to talk to people who ask you about your truck when your out running it :D