Too many classes... what to do, what to do...
07-24-2007, 10:47 AM
#16
in all reality stock truck can be made into mod or at least 19t. i race stock truck myself (most of the time i race electric) just to cut down on tire use, but in all reality it takes a 19t to really get them going. 19t motors arent battery hogs and arent too crazy to handle. just a thought other people will think differently but ....
07-24-2007, 11:53 AM
#18
JBrow, I understand how you feel aout qualifying, its the next best thing to actually racing, but its still not racing. Mostly its spread out, ifmar style, and slower cars are expected to move over.
Is there any other kind of racing, other than RC, that spends more time qualifying than racing? I realize that its because the softwear can only accomodate 10 vehicles at a time, but, with more classes and less vehicles in each class, its making me wonder how necessary it still is.
Maybe RC would be more popular if it only took a morning or evening instead of almost all day.
Show up, practice, qualify, race, home by 1 oclock.
Is there any other kind of racing, other than RC, that spends more time qualifying than racing? I realize that its because the softwear can only accomodate 10 vehicles at a time, but, with more classes and less vehicles in each class, its making me wonder how necessary it still is.
Maybe RC would be more popular if it only took a morning or evening instead of almost all day.
Show up, practice, qualify, race, home by 1 oclock.
07-24-2007, 01:29 PM
#19
JBrow, I understand how you feel aout qualifying, its the next best thing to actually racing, but its still not racing. Mostly its spread out, ifmar style, and slower cars are expected to move over.
Is there any other kind of racing, other than RC, that spends more time qualifying than racing? I realize that its because the softwear can only accomodate 10 vehicles at a time, but, with more classes and less vehicles in each class, its making me wonder how necessary it still is.
Maybe RC would be more popular if it only took a morning or evening instead of almost all day.
Show up, practice, qualify, race, home by 1 oclock.
Is there any other kind of racing, other than RC, that spends more time qualifying than racing? I realize that its because the softwear can only accomodate 10 vehicles at a time, but, with more classes and less vehicles in each class, its making me wonder how necessary it still is.
Maybe RC would be more popular if it only took a morning or evening instead of almost all day.
Show up, practice, qualify, race, home by 1 oclock.
I personally think the future of racing with lipo and all we will be running longer mains.
10, 15, 20 minutes who knows.
I personally don't mind however many classes there are. Its more room for more people to race in a more appropriate skill level.
I've been to races where people are forced to race in advanced classes and the advanced people get upset and say things like hes oblivious to the fact theres a race going on. Some are never happy. Long night or the wrong mix.
I would say get used to the long nights as if it where to many classes, cause the lipo age is upon us and the mains at the very least will be longer.
The day races have always been the best schedule if you ask me. Start any where from 10,am to 12:00 and run till its over.
Week nights are different if you race on a week night expect to be tired for work the next day.
07-24-2007, 02:41 PM
#20
Here is my thought.
I am not a racer, just an long time avid practicer with a couple of trucks. If what I say dosnt jive with the norm, sorry I am not sure what the norm actually is.
My trucks and bugy include.
T4, 10T, Laxer zx5, and recently sold my 3.3 revo.
Where I practice, I feel the 27t it just a waste of time. Its a good track but the 27t is slow on the straits, and it labors over the jumps. The buggies seem to be quicker but still not exciting.
On the other hand, to me, 19t is what the stock class should be. It is fast enough to be fun, competiteve, and it is controlable. If someone wishes to run a 27t in the 19 class- go for it.
Anything less than 19 should be run what you brung. If you can handle a fast truck good. If you cant keep practicing untill you can, thats how you get better.
Besides the above 2 classes, there should be.
2wd Truck, 2wd Buggy. 4wd electric, which would include both.
Same for nitro.
Just my thought. It would make the classes smaller, and there would be more drivers in each class. If the turn out for one class is to small, they can combine like classes only if the other class agrees.
I am not a racer, just an long time avid practicer with a couple of trucks. If what I say dosnt jive with the norm, sorry I am not sure what the norm actually is.
My trucks and bugy include.
T4, 10T, Laxer zx5, and recently sold my 3.3 revo.
Where I practice, I feel the 27t it just a waste of time. Its a good track but the 27t is slow on the straits, and it labors over the jumps. The buggies seem to be quicker but still not exciting.
On the other hand, to me, 19t is what the stock class should be. It is fast enough to be fun, competiteve, and it is controlable. If someone wishes to run a 27t in the 19 class- go for it.
Anything less than 19 should be run what you brung. If you can handle a fast truck good. If you cant keep practicing untill you can, thats how you get better.
Besides the above 2 classes, there should be.
2wd Truck, 2wd Buggy. 4wd electric, which would include both.
Same for nitro.
Just my thought. It would make the classes smaller, and there would be more drivers in each class. If the turn out for one class is to small, they can combine like classes only if the other class agrees.
07-24-2007, 02:53 PM
#21
This is a never ending battle. The manufacturers do not care about racers and rightfully so...they want to make a profit and that lies in a diversified product line.
I have been racing since 2001 and I rarely see a track with more than 50 true racers who are in it for the long haul. Other than that, new guys show up to race, have fun, decide to race all 3 classes too quickly (or 4 or 5, you get the picture), and then burnout within 3-6 months.
Our market is as big as BMX or mountain bike racing but both of those pull in WAY MORE racers on a consistent basis. I have raced both plus MX and it there is just no comparison.
Another example, my "home track" (www.rcexcitement.com) has 20-25 solid carpet guys and 30-40 or so offroad electric guys...combine them and you have an awesome field of racers. Keep them separate and you know who is in the A and who isn't for both disciplines. I have raced here since 2001, 3 buildings, and watched this progression. To me this gets VERY boring and thus I ponder why spend all the $$$ I do over and over. Hence why I am racing dirt bikes again and not racing RC at this time.
The only time it is not boring to race is going to a large race where I have no clue if I will make the A or D (or worse) based on all of the entrants in my class.
I have been racing since 2001 and I rarely see a track with more than 50 true racers who are in it for the long haul. Other than that, new guys show up to race, have fun, decide to race all 3 classes too quickly (or 4 or 5, you get the picture), and then burnout within 3-6 months.
Our market is as big as BMX or mountain bike racing but both of those pull in WAY MORE racers on a consistent basis. I have raced both plus MX and it there is just no comparison.
Another example, my "home track" (www.rcexcitement.com) has 20-25 solid carpet guys and 30-40 or so offroad electric guys...combine them and you have an awesome field of racers. Keep them separate and you know who is in the A and who isn't for both disciplines. I have raced here since 2001, 3 buildings, and watched this progression. To me this gets VERY boring and thus I ponder why spend all the $$$ I do over and over. Hence why I am racing dirt bikes again and not racing RC at this time.
The only time it is not boring to race is going to a large race where I have no clue if I will make the A or D (or worse) based on all of the entrants in my class.
07-24-2007, 11:20 PM
#22
If the amount of $$ the racers bring in each racemeet is more than the clubs overheads, then you're in a good position regardless of how many classes or racers per class.
Most clubs get enough racers, but not enough track maintanance guys. A well prepared track will keep racers coming back over the amount of classes offered.
Mark F-P
07-25-2007, 05:12 AM
#24
Suspended
iTrader: (1)
Well, I believe it's time to stop separating the classes by power displacement. There will be 19 turn guys who would be slower with a mod motor as an example, so why not start separating it by skill level like nitro currently does? And with the current motor and battery technologies the power gap is closing anyway.
If it were up to me, the electric class setup would be:
Novice Open
Intermediate 2wd Buggy
Intermediate 4wd Buggy
Intermediate Truck
Expert 2wd Buggy
Expert 4wd Buggy
Expert Truck
If it were up to me, the electric class setup would be:
Novice Open
Intermediate 2wd Buggy
Intermediate 4wd Buggy
Intermediate Truck
Expert 2wd Buggy
Expert 4wd Buggy
Expert Truck
07-25-2007, 05:58 AM
#25
There was a good read in the on road forum a while back. It was called break out classes.
It focused on the amount of laps and wins a person can get.
What I found cool was that you could run a 4x with a 2x or even a truck for that matter, all together as you were all running close to the same laps.
All based on the skill level, if you could turn 20 laps with a Hot Wheel you could run with the minis doing 21 so to speak.
Sounds like an open class all round kinda. I like the Idea. The ultimate run what you brung class in every class.
And I can only agree on who ever say advanced racers should run 19t it evens up the race field, get rid of controversies and leave the stock class more open to new racers with out intimidation.
It focused on the amount of laps and wins a person can get.
What I found cool was that you could run a 4x with a 2x or even a truck for that matter, all together as you were all running close to the same laps.
All based on the skill level, if you could turn 20 laps with a Hot Wheel you could run with the minis doing 21 so to speak.
Sounds like an open class all round kinda. I like the Idea. The ultimate run what you brung class in every class.
And I can only agree on who ever say advanced racers should run 19t it evens up the race field, get rid of controversies and leave the stock class more open to new racers with out intimidation.
07-25-2007, 06:10 AM
#26
There was a comment in another thread about adding another class... which was quickly responded to by "great, another class..... " Rather than start the conversation and have it buried in that thread, I thought I'd start a new one because this is an issue that tracks have to deal with.
The local track I race at has too many classes running. Well, maybe not too many, but not enough people to support every class. We had 8 heats. Here's a list of the classes and the number in each (estimated because I don't know the exact number).
1) 4wd - 6
2) Truggies - 4
3) Mod Truck - 5
4) Monster Truck 5
5) Monster Truck 4
6) 1/8th 5
7) 1/8th 4
8) Stock truck 5
Yeah, there were people that ran more than one class so I'd say we had about 25 racers. A couple people left who were running 1/8th so we ended up having just one 1/8th scale main. But with that many people turning out, which I think is pretty good, only the monster truck class had a B main. Half the fun of racing is qualifying and if you're only qualifying for WHERE you start in the A, it can get boring. I know everyone has different tastes in what they drive but the racing is always more fun when there's three or four heats of racers trying to qualify for the A main.
I know a lot of tracks are combining stock and mod truck and making an "open" truck class which I support but that can intimidate new racers jumping in... I would just like to know what other tracks are doing about this. We don't even have a 2wd, mini, or who knows what else is racing out there at other tracks. We also have an issue with electric 1/8ths running with the nitro cars. The best lap times are the same but it just so happens the person with an electric eight is just a better driver... but of course we're getting complaints about whether or not its fair to include them.. I know, that could be an entirely different thread. What are track owners doing about all of the classes diluting the heats? What classes are you combining? Do you split nitro racing days and electric racing days? How do you keep a noobie from buying a 1/16th Trinity Blade and expecting to race it? hear what I'm saying? Wow.. long first post.
The local track I race at has too many classes running. Well, maybe not too many, but not enough people to support every class. We had 8 heats. Here's a list of the classes and the number in each (estimated because I don't know the exact number).
1) 4wd - 6
2) Truggies - 4
3) Mod Truck - 5
4) Monster Truck 5
5) Monster Truck 4
6) 1/8th 5
7) 1/8th 4
8) Stock truck 5
Yeah, there were people that ran more than one class so I'd say we had about 25 racers. A couple people left who were running 1/8th so we ended up having just one 1/8th scale main. But with that many people turning out, which I think is pretty good, only the monster truck class had a B main. Half the fun of racing is qualifying and if you're only qualifying for WHERE you start in the A, it can get boring. I know everyone has different tastes in what they drive but the racing is always more fun when there's three or four heats of racers trying to qualify for the A main.
I know a lot of tracks are combining stock and mod truck and making an "open" truck class which I support but that can intimidate new racers jumping in... I would just like to know what other tracks are doing about this. We don't even have a 2wd, mini, or who knows what else is racing out there at other tracks. We also have an issue with electric 1/8ths running with the nitro cars. The best lap times are the same but it just so happens the person with an electric eight is just a better driver... but of course we're getting complaints about whether or not its fair to include them.. I know, that could be an entirely different thread. What are track owners doing about all of the classes diluting the heats? What classes are you combining? Do you split nitro racing days and electric racing days? How do you keep a noobie from buying a 1/16th Trinity Blade and expecting to race it? hear what I'm saying? Wow.. long first post.
In a lot of cases if a directer puts a novice in with a more advanced racer the novice guy gets watered.
Its important for a director to have as many race options as possible.
It encourages the birth of new classes.
Its up to all of us to participate. It looks to me there is nothing wrong with this line up, and it will give a few extra minutes for prep in the pits between rounds.
Lets say all for the sake of get home early you mix the hole day save an hour and it actually promotes more racers.????????
Now you have accomplished a task of the time it takes to run the races and your back finding a way to save time because you have so many racers. Its a no win. Go to the track enjoy the evening, if it gets late, go home.
We have a few bad boys at our track they show up spank us in the Qualifiers and leave the mains to us knuckle heads.
They go home and some times stay to watch. And then theres the nights they stay and hang us out to dry.
07-25-2007, 06:35 AM
#28
Well, I believe it's time to stop separating the classes by power displacement. There will be 19 turn guys who would be slower with a mod motor as an example, so why not start separating it by skill level like nitro currently does? And with the current motor and battery technologies the power gap is closing anyway.
If it were up to me, the electric class setup would be:
Novice Open
Intermediate 2wd Buggy
Intermediate 4wd Buggy
Intermediate Truck
Expert 2wd Buggy
Expert 4wd Buggy
Expert Truck
If it were up to me, the electric class setup would be:
Novice Open
Intermediate 2wd Buggy
Intermediate 4wd Buggy
Intermediate Truck
Expert 2wd Buggy
Expert 4wd Buggy
Expert Truck
No need for all the confusion created by multiple classes, and those that insist on making a dedicated competitive stock/19T class that stands alone all by itself, when it should be open and run what you brought. It’s frustrating with what has been happening to electric racing lately in the past few years, and I think all the confusion created by multiple class has contributed to its decline in popularity and simplity.
You don't see them splitting up 1/8th 4wd scale by engine sizes today, but rather by skill levels at big events and club races. In fact I know that if I race nitro, I don't have to worry about investing in multiple nitro engine combos or the like, too much hassle if that was the case. That’s the appeal of running nitro to many new racers, and it continues to attract many new racers for the fact you just can run your 1/8th scale and gas truck as it is with whatever you purchased for it. Way less confusing for sure. I think the same should be the case for electric. I believe the additional diversity classes for electric (19T, Stock, & further clouded by the push for 10.5 brushless, 13.5 brushless classes, when is it going to end? just a money maker for manufactors for the most part I believe) is just simply hurting it for the past few years, and hope for the return of the glory day of simply run what you brought to the track, and see an increase in turnouts far as electric racing goes. A lot simpler and easier. We could learn a thing or two from our nitro counterparts for sure.
07-25-2007, 06:49 AM
#29
I totally agree with this post, as it is exactly my feeling how electric should be run at club races, as well as bigger events! Right on, and keep Novice as for what it was intended to be in the first place.
No need for all the confusion created by multiple classes, and those that insist on making a dedicated competitive stock/19T class that stands alone all by itself, when it should be open and run what you brought. It’s frustrating with what has been happening to electric racing lately in the past few years, and I think all the confusion created by multiple class has contributed to its decline in popularity and simplity.
You don't see them splitting up 1/8th 4wd scale by engine sizes today, but rather by skill levels at big events and club races. In fact I know that if I race nitro, I don't have to worry about investing in multiple nitro engine combos or the like, too much hassle if that was the case. That’s the appeal of running nitro to many new racers, and it continues to attract many new racers for the fact you just can run your 1/8th scale and gas truck as it is with whatever you purchased for it. Way less confusing for sure. I think the same should be the case for electric. I believe the additional diversity classes for electric (19T, Stock, & further clouded by the push for 10.5 brushless, 13.5 brushless classes, when is it going to end? just a money maker for manufactors for the most part I believe) is just simply hurting it for the past few years, and hope for the return of the glory day of simply run what you brought to the track, and see an increase in turnouts far as electric racing goes. A lot simpler and easier. We could learn a thing or two from our nitro counterparts for sure.
No need for all the confusion created by multiple classes, and those that insist on making a dedicated competitive stock/19T class that stands alone all by itself, when it should be open and run what you brought. It’s frustrating with what has been happening to electric racing lately in the past few years, and I think all the confusion created by multiple class has contributed to its decline in popularity and simplity.
You don't see them splitting up 1/8th 4wd scale by engine sizes today, but rather by skill levels at big events and club races. In fact I know that if I race nitro, I don't have to worry about investing in multiple nitro engine combos or the like, too much hassle if that was the case. That’s the appeal of running nitro to many new racers, and it continues to attract many new racers for the fact you just can run your 1/8th scale and gas truck as it is with whatever you purchased for it. Way less confusing for sure. I think the same should be the case for electric. I believe the additional diversity classes for electric (19T, Stock, & further clouded by the push for 10.5 brushless, 13.5 brushless classes, when is it going to end? just a money maker for manufactors for the most part I believe) is just simply hurting it for the past few years, and hope for the return of the glory day of simply run what you brought to the track, and see an increase in turnouts far as electric racing goes. A lot simpler and easier. We could learn a thing or two from our nitro counterparts for sure.
Not even a glitch next to my sign up it says electric to separate our times.
Good close racing, two races in one and it works out sweet.
07-25-2007, 06:52 AM
#30
I'm not real sure but are you just saying the night takes to long if watered down.? Or the competition gets watered down.
In a lot of cases if a directer puts a novice in with a more advanced racer the novice guy gets watered.
Its important for a director to have as many race options as possible.
It encourages the birth of new classes.
Its up to all of us to participate. It looks to me there is nothing wrong with this line up, and it will give a few extra minutes for prep in the pits between rounds.
Lets say all for the sake of get home early you mix the hole day save an hour and it actually promotes more racers.????????
Now you have accomplished a task of the time it takes to run the races and your back finding a way to save time because you have so many racers. Its a no win. Go to the track enjoy the evening, if it gets late, go home.
We have a few bad boys at our track they show up spank us in the Qualifiers and leave the mains to us knuckle heads. They go home and some times stay to watch. And then theres the nights they stay and hang us out to dry.
In a lot of cases if a directer puts a novice in with a more advanced racer the novice guy gets watered.
Its important for a director to have as many race options as possible.
It encourages the birth of new classes.
Its up to all of us to participate. It looks to me there is nothing wrong with this line up, and it will give a few extra minutes for prep in the pits between rounds.
Lets say all for the sake of get home early you mix the hole day save an hour and it actually promotes more racers.????????
Now you have accomplished a task of the time it takes to run the races and your back finding a way to save time because you have so many racers. Its a no win. Go to the track enjoy the evening, if it gets late, go home.
We have a few bad boys at our track they show up spank us in the Qualifiers and leave the mains to us knuckle heads.
They go home and some times stay to watch. And then theres the nights they stay and hang us out to dry.What I'm getting at is that there are too many different classes for the amount of racers we have. At this pace, in a couple years we'll have 25 racers showing up to run 25 different classes and it will take the entire weekend. With the amount of people we have, we should be able to run 2 or 3 qualifiers and have an A,B, and C main for a few classes. But it's not that way. When I first got into racing, in the early 90's, we'd have 25 people show up to run either truck oval, or the onroad cars... I forget what the class was called but it was the 10Ls.... sometimes we'd have a 12th scale class. And we'd have a C main almost every week and it was depressing to only have a B main. I can't wait to have a B main again.... It makes qualifying what it is, qualifying.