The consensus at CRCRC has been that the BK2 CANNOT acheive the same amount of rear traction as the previous car. I personally have had no luck with the BK2. My old car was faster. Time sheets say so! By no luck, I mean I've been unable to make the BK2 superior to its predecessor. If the whole BK2 was better, then Losi's top drivers would not have needed to change the rear suspension and drivetrain geometry. The BK2 "box stock" setup would have been sufficient. Most average drivers will not noitice too much difference between either car, but trial and error for an experienced modified driver will tell the tale. I've always been a Losi driver.... I always welcome the new cars into my home.... I can't wait for the new car. I think it will blend all of the pro's of the last 2 rides.
so basicly this new car is pointed much more towards mod? The abillity to have an even more precise rear end setup and ect that wouldn't be as noticeable in stock where weight and corner speed are a bigger concern then traction.
I think it's interesting that with the new car's rear suspension in the short arm setting it will have she shortest rear arms that have been used in offroad since the original RC10. Funny how things change.
On the weight thing, lighter should be faster in stock or anywhere power is limited. My Factory Team B4 is 6 ounces overweight with a Novak GTB (it's heavier than a brushed setup by ~1.5oz). B4 users add weight to change the balance of the car, not to make weight.
Does anybody know if the "old" rear end that everybody is using the standard XXX rear or is it the hybrid rear that uses the XXcr rear block and the weird VLA setting (inner hole on arm, outer on hub)?
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."
bshack - The CR should be better on smooth electric-style tracks than the BK2 was..that's the point. The BK2 is still a great car for outdoor-style, loamy tracks.
You can't learn how to make cars work without trying new stuff.
A lighter car won't do anything better than a heavier one if it's not easy to control. With the technology currently in our cars, nothing beats having weight to press the tires down to the track surface.
__________________
Aaron Waldron
Associate Editor, RC Car Magazine
25233 Anza Dr.
Valencia, California 91355
aaron@hi-torque.com
aaron.....i thought it was the other way around......the bk2 was better on the smooth blue groove stuff and the bk 1.5 (i.e.....the xxxcr) was better at the outdoor rought stuff?
btw Davidka......people put weight in the rear of the B4 to help it gain some rear bite......because it doesn't have any. the car is all steering. been there, done that and it sucked.
dirtracer1, I have a B4, I have had 2 of them. The weight thing is more of a balance issue. It helps rear grip a little but if the car is loose the extra weight won't get the setup there. I run on a high grip track so I don't add weight at all. The B4 has just as good rear traction as the Bk2 if set up correctly. I like the feel of the losi cars but on a high grip surface I have found the B4 is always faster because of the steering.
I am not ready to give up on the Losi cars yet, just got a Bk1 to experiment with.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."
bshack - The CR should be better on smooth electric-style tracks than the BK2 was..that's the point. The BK2 is still a great car for outdoor-style, loamy tracks.
You can't learn how to make cars work without trying new stuff.
A lighter car won't do anything better than a heavier one if it's not easy to control. With the technology currently in our cars, nothing beats having weight to press the tires down to the track surface.
No way! The BK2 sucks on loamy tracks. When the track goes into washer board mode the cars rear hops like a bunny rabbit and it becomes difficult to keep it in a straight line. Also, the steering washes out after the apex as soon as you get on the gas. Please stop perpetuating the cars false sense of security. It's only good on FLAT high bite situations. The XXXCR should take care of most of these problems. maybe...
i had a b4 also......the ONLY time i liked that car was on a blue groove track. it steered like a 1/12th scale on rails. however, for everything else, i'll stick with a losi.
Up here in the Midwest we race indoors off road with slick Losi pink compound tires. The grip is great but it's probably not helping us to learn to drive any better
Sure helps to quicken the reflexes though.
__________________
"I have no idea what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head."
Somebody posted back on page 1 mentioning our new X - 6, and the comment was made that the mid-motor design had been tried back in the '80s and found wanting. Back in the '80s that was true.
They were racing with rock-hard tires back then on soft dusty or sandy tracks. Conditions were far different than the blue-groove tracks we have today where they blow or sweep the dust off. And today's super soft tire compounds, combined with modern foam, have changed things dramatically. Losi's silver, considered hard today, is softer than most '80s tires.
With the motor in back you go through corners riding a pendulum -- sooner or later the heavy end is going to come around. This limits corner speed and leads to a strange style of driving: Dive into the corner on the power as long as you can, slam on the brakes, and "rotate" the car around the apex. No F-1 driver does it that way. If "rotating" were the fast way, they'd all do it.
In bumps, especially washboards and whoops, the rear motor acts like a bucking horse, throwing the rear of the car into the air and making it difficult to control. With a rear-motor car the way through the whoops is simple: slow down and drive through under as much control as you can muster.
The X - 6 has none of these problems. For immediate proof, watch a xx-4 or X - 5 corner and take bumps.
We also have much better steering because of weight distribution. A Losi or AE buggy is about 65 - 35 rear to front. The X - 6 is about 55 - 45. Greg and Paul say it steers like nothing they've ever driven. They also say it's the easiest-to-drive buggy they've ever driven because it's so predictable.
With today's tires and track surfaces, there's no differences in acceleration. We proved that at this year's Cactus and Losi races.
Back in the day, the mid-motor was not going to work. You needed the rear motor to act like a lever and push the tires into the track on acceleration. The mid-motor was ahead of its time then. This is the time.
P.S. I didn't mean to hijack the thread, just felt I should respond to the post above. I think the CR is an improvement over the BK2.
__________________
www.xfactoryrc.com Do The Math at our exciting new website.
www.xfactorystore.com New URL for the X Factory store
Well, I was talking to Matt Francis at the 2004 roar stock nats and he explained this principle to be and it made alot of sense.
Pretend your car is a shopping cart with a case of beer in it. if you put the case of beer toward the front, it's hard to steer the cart left or right. Put the case of beer toward the rear and it's alot easier to steer.
So basically, the farther back the weight is, the better your buggy turns and rotates in the corner.
4wheel drive is different because the front wheels turning under power helps to steer the car, and a mid mounted motor has less effect on steering.
__________________
RC AMERICA/ X-RAY/Hudy/AKA/ Xlgraphicspro Paint/ Impulse-Rc Clutch shoes.
Xray XB 808 O.S. Speed/ XT8 O.S. V-Spec
But the effect you just describe seems to contradict its self. since the weight is like a pendulum and so its harder to turn the further out it is...
right at the back of the cart its in the middle, sine you are at the back.
so either Ive been drinking some of that beer, or you just reinforced what Chazz was saying.
Hey guys I'm not gonna lie, the Dapp was dialed at the Losi Race with the X-6. He was my bet to win it, until the groove went WAY AWAY due to some serious rain. After the fisrt A-main my buggy looked like it was running mud-slicks. Everyone had a little trouble getting use to their cars once the rain came and the track got muddy. ***Sidenote*** The Hurricane R/C Club got the track up and going and close to awesome with a quickness. Mad props to them. Had to do it, they are a great group of guys.
__________________
Hot Bodies Racing/Murnan Modified Motors/JConcepts/Ironman Bearings/Nitro Juice Racing Fuel/Banzai Motors/xXxL Graphics
Insanity I tell you
The BK2 sucks on loamy tracks. When the track goes into washer board mode the cars rear hops like a bunny rabbit and it becomes difficult to keep it in a straight line. Also, the steering washes out after the apex as soon as you get on the gas. Please stop perpetuating the cars false sense of security. It's only good on FLAT high bite situations. The XXXCR should take care of most of these problems. 
maybe... 
Similar Threads