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Old 04-20-2011, 08:13 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Error404 View Post
.....Damn right they are. We come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window because we don't agree with it, or we don't like it. Wouldn't you do that if another country invaded ours to tell us our way of living is wrong. We got in, removed Saddam, we were shown images of Iraqi's praising the USA and NATO for our work, but now it's what? 9 years later and we're just pulling out, somewhat, and most of the people there don't want us there anymore.

Where were we when they blew up the garage of the WTC??

Where were we when they blew up the USS Cole??

The flight over Lockerbie, Scotland?

Marine Corps Barracks in Beirut?

We didn't invade no countries prior to 9/11, but yet these attacks took place.

Why??? Answer that question.

And on September 10, 2011 we had not had any major troop presence in any Middle Eastern country with the intent to "throw their way of life out the window".

Jiml, you don't have to debate with me on a moot issue: the rules exists for a reason, no matter how archaic it may seems (I did say that before). It's there to ensure protection of its citizens, regardless of how you may think it is.

This has nothing to do with hatred.

It is about prevention.

And the answer to that question you asked is zero. That is because the TSA does not have jurisdiction in other countries, only in the US. And apparently due to all the whining about "illegal search and seizure", something is working.... but I guess no one heard of "probable cause".

Everybody is guilty until proven innocent.

And there are already rules and guidelines in place for those who wishes to enter the US that they have to follow. asw7576 proved that point.

But you want to make a big deal about your 4th being violated or infringed upon?

Fine.

The next Airliner goes down on US soil due to a bombing and I'll direct the Feds to your moans whining and complaining.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by asw7576 View Post
I come from south east asian country. I go to USA with wife & kids yearly.

After the 9/11, all passengers going to USA ( and I think including transit passangers ) must have and complete the following :

1. Valid USA VISA + Valid passport with minimum of 6 months before expiration date.
2. Passengers must state the staying address while in USA at the airline ticket's check in counter. I guess the information will be fax by the airline employee to homeland security.
3. Special departure gate inside airport for US embarkation. Inside the departure gate, all passangers and their belongings must passed x-ray scanner, must passed body check officials while 6 undercover policemen watching the body checking process + plus some army soldiers are standing near the gatehub and guarding the aeroplane ( today the army are not there anymore, they are replaced by airport security people ).
4. I saw 1 US marshall joining in my flight...... I saw him talking with airline employees and local undercover policemen while he was in the gate.
5. I transit in Taipei, and I have to repeat the checking process again before entering the plane.
6. After 20 hours of flight, I finally arrived in LAX. At the immigration desk, the officer check my visa + passport validity, ask me how long I will be staying in USA, ask me the purpose of coming to USA, and finally the officer match my finger prints with computer database. If everything checks out, I saw green mark on his computer screen. My wife ( one time ) got red marked ..... so she has to enter a special room for further questioning. My wife said new finger prints was needed.

I dont mind I have to follow super tight security process. I feel much safer after that because my flight will be free from terrorists / hijackers ..... touch wood !!!
What country are you from? (Just curious...)

I've been to SE Asia (Vietnam) twice since 9/11, and didn't find the security to be any more obtrusive than it is here. I even had a weapon of sorts in my carry-on luggage (although I didn't think of it as such- but I see their point. I had a "morter and pestle- you know, the bowl and stick for crushing peppers, garlic, etc.) All they did was make me take it out and put it in my checked baggage, no fuss. (That was in the airport in TPHCM, a.k.a. Saigon.)

BTW the security folks there are more polite and professional than ours are here.

I didn't have to deal with security in Taipei (first trip) or Narita (second trip) because I didn't leave the secured part of the airport, so I cannot comment on their processes.
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:19 PM   #48
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"Arizona Sheriff Cites Flood of Border Agents Confirming Feds' No-Apprehension Policy

An Arizona sheriff says he has been flooded with calls and emails of support from local and federal agents who back his claims that the U.S. Border Patrol has effectively ordered them to stop apprehending illegal immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexican border.

“Upper management has advised supervisors to have agents ‘turn back South’ (TBS) the illegal aliens (aka bodies) they detect attempting to unlawfully enter the country … at times you even hear supervisors order the agents over the radio to 'TBS' the aliens instead of catching them,” one San Diego border agent wrote in an email to Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/19/arizona-sheriff-cites-flood-border-agents-confirming-feds-apprehension-policy/#ixzz1K5mb4PGa"

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/19...est=latestnews

So now we are past "catch and release" to just turn them back?

For some of you it's OK for the tsa to harass us at airports and now train stations for "our own safety" while at the same time this dereliction of duty is forced on us?
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:47 PM   #49
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"Pentagon contradicts Napolitano’s Mexican border assessment"

"U.S. Defense Department officials believe the border is actually a gateway for Mexican criminal organizations that have infiltrated the entire country and joined forces with terrorist groups"

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/35668
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
....For some of you it's OK for the tsa to harass us at airports and now train stations for "our own safety" while at the same time this dereliction of duty is forced on us?
You want to know why?

Take a wild guess.

Who do they hire most? Agents that are fluent in Spanish. And who is more fluent in Spanish than Mexicans?

.... all jokes aside, I've been sitting here in El Paso for 5 years now; 90% of Customs Agents here are (and I am trying to be politically correct for jiml) Mexican-Americans, 95% of Border Agents are Mexican-Americans, and about 98% of the Police Force are Mexican-Americans.

I would go out on a limb and assume that all above have relatives living in Juarez, Mexico. And if there isn't anything I don't know about them, is that they have an undying loyalty to their heritage, their culture, and their people.

So if you want to fix the border issue, send all the Agents that are stationed up north, down south.... and send all the agents that are down south, up north.

In other words, destroy the language barrier.

In Iraq, a hand with the palm facing outward to an Iraqi means nothing.

In Iraq a hand with the palm facing outward and a barrel of a gun pointed at them means you stand the hell still.

Give the fence jumpers about a month....
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
You want to know why?

Take a wild guess.

Who do they hire most? Agents that are fluent in Spanish. And who is more fluent in Spanish than Mexicans?

.... all jokes aside, I've been sitting here in El Paso for 5 years now; 90% of Customs Agents here are (and I am trying to be politically correct for jiml) Mexican-Americans, 95% of Border Agents are Mexican-Americans, and about 98% of the Police Force are Mexican-Americans.

I would go out on a limb and assume that all above have relatives living in Juarez, Mexico. And if there isn't anything I don't know about them, is that they have an undying loyalty to their heritage, their culture, and their people.

So if you want to fix the border issue, send all the Agents that are stationed up north, down south.... and send all the agents that are down south, up north.

In other words, destroy the language barrier.

In Iraq, a hand with the palm facing outward to an Iraqi means nothing.

In Iraq a hand with the palm facing outward and a barrel of a gun pointed at them means you stand the hell still.

Give the fence jumpers about a month....
Try reading reading the darn article for once before making a fool of yourself:

“Agents don’t just do this on their own. The orders must come from on high. They don’t just wake up one day and say I’m going to risk my job, my livelihood,” said Bonner, who retired last year after 32 years with Border Patrol. “I’m not sure if it’s Napolitano or folks in Customs and Border Protection, but somebody wants to silence critics in Arizona to claim success in Arizona"
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Old 04-20-2011, 05:58 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Where were we when they blew up the garage of the WTC??
Quote:
According to the journalist Steve Coll, Yousef mailed letters to various New York newspapers just before the attack, in which he claimed he belonged to 'Liberation Army, Fifth Battalion'.[7] These letters made three demands: an end to all US aid to Israel, an end to US diplomatic relations with Israel, and a demand for a pledge by the United States to end interference "with any of the Middle East countries' interior affairs." He stated that the attack on the World Trade Center would be merely the first of such attacks if his demands were not met. In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but that this justified because "the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one."
Bolded for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Where were we when they blew up the USS Cole??
It was harbored in Yemen, an Arabic and Islamic country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
The flight over Lockerbie, Scotland?
It's recently come to light that Gaddafi ordered the Lockerbie bombing. Although Libya has accepted responsibility for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Marine Corps Barracks in Beirut?
Again, an islamic country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
We didn't invade no countries prior to 9/11, but yet these attacks took place.
We didn't invade, but we publicly helped Israel.
There was the Gulf war in 1991.
Battle of Mogadishu in 1993.

Infact:
  • First Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - 1981
  • Operation Prairie Fire (Libya) - March 1986
  • Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya) - April 15, 1986
  • Iran-Iraq War (Iran) - 1987
  • Second Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - January 4, 1989
  • Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – February 28, 1991
  • Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992
  • Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992
  • Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994
  • Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998
Yeah, we really kept to ourselves before 9/11/11

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Why??? Answer that question.
Above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
And on September 10, 2011 we had not had any major troop presence in any Middle Eastern country with the intent to "throw their way of life out the window".
Again. Above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Jiml, you don't have to debate with me on a moot issue: the rules exists for a reason, no matter how archaic it may seems (I did say that before). It's there to ensure protection of its citizens, regardless of how you may think it is.
Protect it's citizens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
This has nothing to do with hatred.
It does. We want other countries to be like us, have democracy and freedoms, so we support (Monetarily and with supplies) allies that fight against those that do not agree with us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
It is about prevention.
It's about forcing other countries to be like us. Which to be honest, lately hasn't been something to be proud of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
And the answer to that question you asked is zero. That is because the TSA does not have jurisdiction in other countries, only in the US. And apparently due to all the whining about "illegal search and seizure", something is working.... but I guess no one heard of "probable cause".
No because it unconstitutional. Driving is a privledge, does that mean you would support police pulling you over, ripping your car apart to find something, then searching you because we've had car bombs before (Oklahoma City and WTC)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Everybody is guilty until proven innocent.
It should be everybody is innocent until proven guilty, but that's been changing to your statement lately. We're turning into USSR

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
And there are already rules and guidelines in place for those who wishes to enter the US that they have to follow. asw7576 proved that point.
For those to enter the US, but why should US citizens be searched and have our rights violated when we're traveling WITHIN the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
But you want to make a big deal about your 4th being violated or infringed upon?

Fine.

The next Airliner goes down on US soil due to a bombing and I'll direct the Feds to your moans whining and complaining.
The next airliner that goes down is because the Fed's can't do their job, cannot communicate together or rather, don't want to communicate information.
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Old 04-20-2011, 06:41 PM   #53
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Where were we when they blew up the garage of the WTC??

Quote:
According to the journalist Steve Coll, Yousef mailed letters to various New York newspapers just before the attack, in which he claimed he belonged to 'Liberation Army, Fifth Battalion'.[7] These letters made three demands: an end to all US aid to Israel, an end to US diplomatic relations with Israel, and a demand for a pledge by the United States to end interference "with any of the Middle East countries' interior affairs." He stated that the attack on the World Trade Center would be merely the first of such attacks if his demands were not met. In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but that this justified because "the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one."

Bolded for you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Where were we when they blew up the USS Cole??

It was harbored in Yemen, an Arabic and Islamic country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
The flight over Lockerbie, Scotland?

It's recently come to light that Gaddafi ordered the Lockerbie bombing. Although Libya has accepted responsibility for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Marine Corps Barracks in Beirut?

Again, an islamic country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
We didn't invade no countries prior to 9/11, but yet these attacks took place.

We didn't invade, but we publicly helped Israel.
There was the Gulf war in 1991.
Battle of Mogadishu in 1993.

Infact:
First Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - 1981
Operation Prairie Fire (Libya) - March 1986
Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya) - April 15, 1986
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) - 1987
Second Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - January 4, 1989
Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – February 28, 1991
Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992
Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992
Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994
Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998
Yeah, we really kept to ourselves before 9/11/11


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Why??? Answer that question.

Above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
And on September 10, 2011 we had not had any major troop presence in any Middle Eastern country with the intent to "throw their way of life out the window".

Again. Above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Jiml, you don't have to debate with me on a moot issue: the rules exists for a reason, no matter how archaic it may seems (I did say that before). It's there to ensure protection of its citizens, regardless of how you may think it is.

Protect it's citizens?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
This has nothing to do with hatred.

It does. We want other countries to be like us, have democracy and freedoms, so we support (Monetarily and with supplies) allies that fight against those that do not agree with us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
It is about prevention.

It's about forcing other countries to be like us. Which to be honest, lately hasn't been something to be proud of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
And the answer to that question you asked is zero. That is because the TSA does not have jurisdiction in other countries, only in the US. And apparently due to all the whining about "illegal search and seizure", something is working.... but I guess no one heard of "probable cause".

No because it unconstitutional. Driving is a privledge, does that mean you would support police pulling you over, ripping your car apart to find something, then searching you because we've had car bombs before (Oklahoma City and WTC)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
Everybody is guilty until proven innocent.

It should be everybody is innocent until proven guilty, but that's been changing to your statement lately. We're turning into USSR


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
And there are already rules and guidelines in place for those who wishes to enter the US that they have to follow. asw7576 proved that point.

For those to enter the US, but why should US citizens be searched and have our rights violated when we're traveling WITHIN the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero
But you want to make a big deal about your 4th being violated or infringed upon?

Fine.

The next Airliner goes down on US soil due to a bombing and I'll direct the Feds to your moans whining and complaining.

The next airliner that goes down is because the Fed's can't do their job, cannot communicate together or rather, don't want to communicate information.
People that think like this[in reference to Error404] scare me more than anything else...especially because it's not just one guy ALOT of people these days think like this...
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Error404 View Post
Bolded for you.

It was harbored in Yemen, an Arabic and Islamic country.

It's recently come to light that Gaddafi ordered the Lockerbie bombing. Although Libya has accepted responsibility for it.

Again, an islamic country.

We didn't invade, but we publicly helped Israel.
There was the Gulf war in 1991.
Battle of Mogadishu in 1993.

Infact:
  • First Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - 1981
  • Operation Prairie Fire (Libya) - March 1986
  • Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya) - April 15, 1986
  • Iran-Iraq War (Iran) - 1987
  • Second Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - January 4, 1989
  • Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – February 28, 1991
  • Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992
  • Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992
  • Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994
  • Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998
I really suggest you read what I wrote again. In fact I suggest that you read what YOU said.....

In fact, let me remind you:

You said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Error404 View Post
GundamWZero, you say "They are willing to do whatever it takes to kill us." Damn right they are. We come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window because we don't agree with it, or we don't like it. Wouldn't you do that if another country invaded ours to tell us our way of living is wrong. We got in, removed Saddam, we were shown images of Iraqi's praising the USA and NATO for our work, but now it's what? 9 years later and we're just pulling out, somewhat, and most of the people there don't want us there anymore.
I replied:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Where were we when they blew up the garage of the WTC??

Where were we when they blew up the USS Cole??

The flight over Lockerbie, Scotland?

Marine Corps Barracks in Beirut?

We didn't invade no countries prior to 9/11, but yet these attacks took place.

Why??? Answer that question.

And on September 10, 2011 we had not had any major troop presence in any Middle Eastern country with the intent to "throw their way of life out the window".
Now read it yourself.

The key words that YOU yourself mentioned was "come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window"

Unless you have been either living under a rock, or someone has been passing of some bad information for you to swallow. We have never attempted to overthrow any government prior to September 10, 2011!!!

Time to school you, son....

First Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - 1981

Muammar Gaddafi illegally extends his countries bounderies across the Gulf of Sidra. NATO condems the action for it was considered international waters.

Keep in mind that this preceded the terrorist hijacking of TWA Flight 187 in June of 1985, sponsored by none other than:

Muammar Gaddafi. The same guy who is about to get his carcass handed to himself by his own people. So the US sent a carrier group to the Gulf of Sidra for a training excercise.... international waters, mind you.

1st round:

USS Forrestal and USS Nimitz crossed the "Line of Death". Libya sends two MiG 25 Foxbats but were escorted away by F-4 Phantom IIs. The MiG went and rallied the troops and they came back out with 35 pairs of MiG 23 Floggers, Su-20 Fitter Cs, Su-22 Fitter-Js, Mirage F1s....you know, the Hattfields were in full force. Both sides stuck their chests out, banged on them, but Libya took their ball and went home.

2nd Round:

After some intense training two F-14s were flying CAP during a missile exercise when a E-2C picked up two Su-22s on radar. Tomcats moved to intercept.

One of the Su-22 fired a missile at one of the Tomcats....

.......and Top Gun was made off what happened next.

US 2, Libya 0.


Operation Prairie Fire (Libya) - March 1986

Three carriers crossed "The Line of Death", accompanied by two destroyers and escort fighters. Libya tried to deep six the escort fighters using the SA-5 SAM (surface to air) systems they just got from the USSR. They missed. So, they scramble two MiG-25 Foxbats to intercept....

...but....

....the E-2C Hawkeyes (AWACS for the Navy) detected the launch of the MiGs and warned the F-14 that they were having guests. The MiGs came up, engaged the Tomcats..... disengaged the Tomcats, came back, re-engaged the Tomcats....disengaged the Tomcats and ran home. In the process, more SA-5s were launched against the F-14s. 2 missed the fighters and went into the drink and two more were jammed into the drink.... all over international waters.

So Gaddafi decided to play hardball. He sent out 2 Missile Corvettes and 3 Patrol Boats....against 30 warships, three were carriers.....

Gaddafi got back 2 damaged boats, and burn pits where his SAM sites used to be.

US 35, Libya, 0

Whew.... next one...

Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya) - April 15, 1986

A popular nightclub was bombed in West Berlin, Germany. Cable transcripts from the Libyan Embassy told of the Libyan Agents who were involved in the attack (the Libyan agents were later prosecuted by Germany in 1990). President Reagan ordered an airstrike against Libya.

And that was how the video game Real War: Rouge States was made.

US 71, Libya 2. Libya managed to bring down one F-111 Raven.

Iran-Iraq War (Iran) - 1987

Dude....we wasn't even remotely involved....

Lay off the bong.....

Second Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - January 4, 1989

Again, same location...."The Line of Death". This time, the USS Kennedy is in the bathtub.

Launch, detect, repeat.

US 2, Libya 0.... both Flogger pilots washed out to sea.

Gaddafi claims that the US attacked "unarmed reconnaissance" planes, the US showed the beautiful bean footage: F-14 gun cameras showed AA-7 Apex missiles on the Flogger pylons. Game, Set, Match.

Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – February 28, 1991

Ah my favorite..... cause here is were I come in.

Saddam invades Kuwait... positions himself for Saudi Arabia. Goal; control of the Persian Gulf.

International community outraged, The US, along with NATO, set up a defensive posture protecting Saudi Arabia. Iraq digs in as well and human atrocities began to pour out of Kuwait. President G.W.B Sr. has had enough.

Actual US vs Soviet combat equipment for the first time since the cold war began.... and a total mismatch.

It took only 101 hours not only to rout Saddam's Army out of Kuwait, but halfway up to Baghdad.

Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992

No real combat troops, no dice.

Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992

Again... under NATO. No major US troop involvement, not even a single US marked HUMVEE. Try again.

Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994

Wow guy.... do you even read??

1991 coup d'état.....

coup d'état: a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was rightfully elected president during 1990. In 1991, he was deposed by the Haitian Army. (hmmm... a president elected by the people, overthrew by the army that protects them....see where this is going?)


Aristide went into exile and once again NATO (US, Poland, and Argentina) assembled for a ground invasion. With the 82nd ready to drop on to Haitian soil, Former President Jimmy Carter and a diplomatic team persuaded the leader of the rebellion to step down and allow the rightful leadership to take place.

It went from a combat mission to a peace-keeping mission before there was a boot on the ground.

So...no US troop involvement.... you have one more try.

Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998

US cruise missile strikes against terrorist sites in Afghanistan in response to the bombings of the US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

No US troop presence on Afghan soil in 1998 during that operation.

In fact, there are absolutely NO INSTANCE where the US was directly involved in the overthrow of ANY aforementioned government!!!

You're Fired.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:01 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by racer53 View Post
People that think like this[in reference to Error404] scare me more than anything else...especially because it's not just one guy ALOT of people these days think like this...
Racer, at first I thought that you was agreeing with this guy.....

I was about to say, whose side are you on??

Because clearly, Error404 is on the other team.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
Snipped
I listed in wars in which the US was involved or had some type of involvement.

You asked:
Quote:
Where were we when they blew up the garage of the WTC??
I stated we had been involved in wars/conflicts with Islamic nations. Yousef demanded we stay out of Middle Easts internal conflicts. Which from my list, we hadn't.

Just because no troop movement was made didn't mean we didn't have our hand in it somewhere.

If I finance and give the needed materials to perform a robbery, should I be let go because I actually wasn't there? Same thing goes here. We finance and supply those conflicts.

I said:
Quote:
We come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window because we don't agree with it, or we don't like it.
Which is what we did with these wars.

You said:
Quote:
Unless you have been either living under a rock, or someone has been passing of some bad information for you to swallow. We have never attempted to overthrow any government prior to September 10, 2011!!!
1953, Iran? Ring any bells?

Quote:
Muammar Gaddafi illegally extends his countries bounderies across the Gulf of Sidra. NATO condems the action for it was considered international waters.
It wasn't across. It was a 12 mile extension. Again, WE (US) sent OUR naval forces ACROSS the globe. This issue was that regions problems, NOT OURS.

NATO is a joke, and always has been. All it does is bring other countries into an involvement they have no reason to be in.

Quote:
Three carriers crossed "The Line of Death", accompanied by two destroyers and escort fighters. Libya tried to deep six the escort fighters using the SA-5 SAM (surface to air) systems they just got from the USSR. They missed. So, they scramble two MiG-25 Foxbats to intercept....
Again. We came in, and TOLD them, "Hey! We can come do naval exercises within 12 nautical miles of your shore. This is standard."

We challenged them. Again, we became the bully.

What would happen if Libya or North Korea decided to do naval exercise 12 miles off our shore, like we did with Libya?

Quote:
Operation El Dorado Canyon - A popular nightclub was bombed in West Berlin, Germany. Cable transcripts from the Libyan Embassy told of the Libyan Agents who were involved in the attack (the Libyan agents were later prosecuted by Germany in 1990). President Reagan ordered an airstrike against Libya.
A nightclub in a different country was bombed, and we do an airstrike. Yeah, we don't get involved.

Quote:
Dude....we wasn't even remotely involved....

Lay off the bong.....


We supplied biochemical weapons to Iraq. We also used the "bear spares" program for Iraq. Provided military training to Iraq. Again, yeah, we had no involvement.

Quote:
Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992

No real combat troops, no dice.
Again:
Quote:
If I finance and give the needed materials to perform a robbery, should I be let go because I actually wasn't there?
Quote:
Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992

Again... under NATO. No major US troop involvement, not even a single US marked HUMVEE. Try again.
Didn't we lose a F-16? We also lost a Predator if I recall.

Quote:
Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994

1991 coup d'état.....

coup d'état: a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was rightfully elected president during 1990. In 1991, he was deposed by the Haitian Army. (hmmm... a president elected by the people, overthrew by the army that protects them....see where this is going?)
Again, not our problem, also again, we stepped in why? Also, the leaders of the coup (Cedras and Francois) were paid by the CIA and had received US training before the incident.

Quote:
Aristide went into exile and once again NATO (US, Poland, and Argentina) assembled for a ground invasion. With the 82nd ready to drop on to Haitian soil, Former President Jimmy Carter and a diplomatic team persuaded the leader of the rebellion to step down and allow the rightful leadership to take place.
Persuaded?
The only reason they stepped down was because of the number of troops ready to forcefully enter Haiti. They didn't talk going "Oh, will you please let them re-enter power? We'd really appreciate it."

Quote:
Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998

US cruise missile strikes against terrorist sites in Afghanistan in response to the bombings of the US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.
You forgot to mention the striking of a pharmaceutical factory. Which was later reported to have no initial linking to Osama bin Laden like was reported by intelligence agencies. It was the main source of pharmaceuticals for Sudan, and Germany's ambassador for Sudan said "probably led to tens of thousands of deaths" of Sudanese civilians.

Also:
Quote:
The bombings are widely believed to have been revenge for American involvement in the extradition, and alleged torture, of four members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) who had been arrested in Albania in the two months prior to the explosions.
Weird, that says "American involvement" and "torture" right? Yeah, we'd never torture

Quote:
No US troop presence on Afghan soil in 1998 during that operation.
Just because we didn't have feet on the ground means we should be cleared for involvement?

Quote:
In fact, there are absolutely NO INSTANCE where the US was directly involved in the overthrow of ANY aforementioned government!!!
I never said the incidents I posted were for overthrowing government. Your as bad politicians when it comes to putting words in peoples mouth.

Although I can make a list of where covert operations had been reported to overthrow goverments (regime change, has a nice name to it doesn't it, makes it sound more positive.)
  • Iran - 1953
  • Guatemala - 1954
  • Cuba - 1959
  • Congo - 1960
  • Iraq - 1963
  • Brazil - 1964
  • Ghana - 1966
  • Iraq - 1968
  • Chile - 1973
  • Afghanistan - 1973 (Weird, we're there currently aren't we? )
  • Iraq - 1975 (Man. Seems like we really like this place.)
  • Argentina - 1976
  • Afghanistan - 1978 to 80s (We like this place as well.)
  • Iran - 1980
  • Nicaragua - 1981 to 94
  • El Salvador - 1982
  • Angola - ~1980
  • Philippines - 1986
  • Iraq - 1992 to 95
  • Guatemala - 1993
  • Serbia - 2000
  • Venezuela - 2002
  • Haiti - 2004
  • Palestine - 2006
  • Somalia - 06 to 07
  • Iraq - 2001 to Present

Just one or two places.

I said:
Quote:
We come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window because we don't agree with it, or we don't like it.

Quote:
You're Fired.
I see what you did there.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamWZero View Post
I really suggest you read what I wrote again. In fact I suggest that you read what YOU said.....

In fact, let me remind you:

You said,



I replied:



Now read it yourself.

The key words that YOU yourself mentioned was "come into their country, kill innocent civilians, throw their government and way of life out the window"

Unless you have been either living under a rock, or someone has been passing of some bad information for you to swallow. We have never attempted to overthrow any government prior to September 10, 2011!!!

Time to school you, son....

First Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - 1981

Muammar Gaddafi illegally extends his countries bounderies across the Gulf of Sidra. NATO condems the action for it was considered international waters.

Keep in mind that this preceded the terrorist hijacking of TWA Flight 187 in June of 1985, sponsored by none other than:

Muammar Gaddafi. The same guy who is about to get his carcass handed to himself by his own people. So the US sent a carrier group to the Gulf of Sidra for a training excercise.... international waters, mind you.

1st round:

USS Forrestal and USS Nimitz crossed the "Line of Death". Libya sends two MiG 25 Foxbats but were escorted away by F-4 Phantom IIs. The MiG went and rallied the troops and they came back out with 35 pairs of MiG 23 Floggers, Su-20 Fitter Cs, Su-22 Fitter-Js, Mirage F1s....you know, the Hattfields were in full force. Both sides stuck their chests out, banged on them, but Libya took their ball and went home.

2nd Round:

After some intense training two F-14s were flying CAP during a missile exercise when a E-2C picked up two Su-22s on radar. Tomcats moved to intercept.

One of the Su-22 fired a missile at one of the Tomcats....

.......and Top Gun was made off what happened next.

US 2, Libya 0.


Operation Prairie Fire (Libya) - March 1986

Three carriers crossed "The Line of Death", accompanied by two destroyers and escort fighters. Libya tried to deep six the escort fighters using the SA-5 SAM (surface to air) systems they just got from the USSR. They missed. So, they scramble two MiG-25 Foxbats to intercept....

...but....

....the E-2C Hawkeyes (AWACS for the Navy) detected the launch of the MiGs and warned the F-14 that they were having guests. The MiGs came up, engaged the Tomcats..... disengaged the Tomcats, came back, re-engaged the Tomcats....disengaged the Tomcats and ran home. In the process, more SA-5s were launched against the F-14s. 2 missed the fighters and went into the drink and two more were jammed into the drink.... all over international waters.

So Gaddafi decided to play hardball. He sent out 2 Missile Corvettes and 3 Patrol Boats....against 30 warships, three were carriers.....

Gaddafi got back 2 damaged boats, and burn pits where his SAM sites used to be.

US 35, Libya, 0

Whew.... next one...

Operation El Dorado Canyon (Libya) - April 15, 1986

A popular nightclub was bombed in West Berlin, Germany. Cable transcripts from the Libyan Embassy told of the Libyan Agents who were involved in the attack (the Libyan agents were later prosecuted by Germany in 1990). President Reagan ordered an airstrike against Libya.

And that was how the video game Real War: Rouge States was made.

US 71, Libya 2. Libya managed to bring down one F-111 Raven.

Iran-Iraq War (Iran) - 1987

Dude....we wasn't even remotely involved....

Lay off the bong.....

Second Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) - January 4, 1989

Again, same location...."The Line of Death". This time, the USS Kennedy is in the bathtub.

Launch, detect, repeat.

US 2, Libya 0.... both Flogger pilots washed out to sea.

Gaddafi claims that the US attacked "unarmed reconnaissance" planes, the US showed the beautiful bean footage: F-14 gun cameras showed AA-7 Apex missiles on the Flogger pylons. Game, Set, Match.

Gulf War - August 2, 1990 – February 28, 1991

Ah my favorite..... cause here is were I come in.

Saddam invades Kuwait... positions himself for Saudi Arabia. Goal; control of the Persian Gulf.

International community outraged, The US, along with NATO, set up a defensive posture protecting Saudi Arabia. Iraq digs in as well and human atrocities began to pour out of Kuwait. President G.W.B Sr. has had enough.

Actual US vs Soviet combat equipment for the first time since the cold war began.... and a total mismatch.

It took only 101 hours not only to rout Saddam's Army out of Kuwait, but halfway up to Baghdad.

Somali Civil War (We helped several factions) - 1992

No real combat troops, no dice.

Operation Deny Flight (Republika Srpska) - 1992

Again... under NATO. No major US troop involvement, not even a single US marked HUMVEE. Try again.

Operation Uphold Democracy - September 19, 1994

Wow guy.... do you even read??

1991 coup d'état.....

coup d'état: a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government.

Jean-Bertrand Aristide was rightfully elected president during 1990. In 1991, he was deposed by the Haitian Army. (hmmm... a president elected by the people, overthrew by the army that protects them....see where this is going?)


Aristide went into exile and once again NATO (US, Poland, and Argentina) assembled for a ground invasion. With the 82nd ready to drop on to Haitian soil, Former President Jimmy Carter and a diplomatic team persuaded the leader of the rebellion to step down and allow the rightful leadership to take place.

It went from a combat mission to a peace-keeping mission before there was a boot on the ground.

So...no US troop involvement.... you have one more try.

Operation Infinite Reach (Al-Qaeda, Mujahideen, National Islamic Front) - August 20, 1998

US cruise missile strikes against terrorist sites in Afghanistan in response to the bombings of the US embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

No US troop presence on Afghan soil in 1998 during that operation.

In fact, there are absolutely NO INSTANCE where the US was directly involved in the overthrow of ANY aforementioned government!!!

You're Fired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Error404 View Post
I listed in wars in which the US was involved or had some type of involvement.

You asked:

I stated we had been involved in wars/conflicts with Islamic nations. Yousef demanded we stay out of Middle Easts internal conflicts. Which from my list, we hadn't.

Just because no troop movement was made didn't mean we didn't have our hand in it somewhere.

If I finance and give the needed materials to perform a robbery, should I be let go because I actually wasn't there? Same thing goes here. We finance and supply those conflicts.

I said:

Which is what we did with these wars.

You said:


1953, Iran? Ring any bells?


It wasn't across. It was a 12 mile extension. Again, WE (US) sent OUR naval forces ACROSS the globe. This issue was that regions problems, NOT OURS.

NATO is a joke, and always has been. All it does is bring other countries into an involvement they have no reason to be in.


Again. We came in, and TOLD them, "Hey! We can come do naval exercises within 12 nautical miles of your shore. This is standard."

We challenged them. Again, we became the bully.

What would happen if Libya or North Korea decided to do naval exercise 12 miles off our shore, like we did with Libya?



A nightclub in a different country was bombed, and we do an airstrike. Yeah, we don't get involved.





We supplied biochemical weapons to Iraq. We also used the "bear spares" program for Iraq. Provided military training to Iraq. Again, yeah, we had no involvement.



Again:



Didn't we lose a F-16? We also lost a Predator if I recall.


Again, not our problem, also again, we stepped in why? Also, the leaders of the coup (Cedras and Francois) were paid by the CIA and had received US training before the incident.



Persuaded?
The only reason they stepped down was because of the number of troops ready to forcefully enter Haiti. They didn't talk going "Oh, will you please let them re-enter power? We'd really appreciate it."


You forgot to mention the striking of a pharmaceutical factory. Which was later reported to have no initial linking to Osama bin Laden like was reported by intelligence agencies. It was the main source of pharmaceuticals for Sudan, and Germany's ambassador for Sudan said "probably led to tens of thousands of deaths" of Sudanese civilians.

Also:

Weird, that says "American involvement" and "torture" right? Yeah, we'd never torture


Just because we didn't have feet on the ground means we should be cleared for involvement?


I never said the incidents I posted were for overthrowing government. Your as bad politicians when it comes to putting words in peoples mouth.

Although I can make a list of where covert operations had been reported to overthrow goverments (regime change, has a nice name to it doesn't it, makes it sound more positive.)
  • Iran - 1953
  • Guatemala - 1954
  • Cuba - 1959
  • Congo - 1960
  • Iraq - 1963
  • Brazil - 1964
  • Ghana - 1966
  • Iraq - 1968
  • Chile - 1973
  • Afghanistan - 1973 (Weird, we're there currently aren't we? )
  • Iraq - 1975 (Man. Seems like we really like this place.)
  • Argentina - 1976
  • Afghanistan - 1978 to 80s (We like this place as well.)
  • Iran - 1980
  • Nicaragua - 1981 to 94
  • El Salvador - 1982
  • Angola - ~1980
  • Philippines - 1986
  • Iraq - 1992 to 95
  • Guatemala - 1993
  • Serbia - 2000
  • Venezuela - 2002
  • Haiti - 2004
  • Palestine - 2006
  • Somalia - 06 to 07
  • Iraq - 2001 to Present

Just one or two places.

I said:




I see what you did there.
I'm not too terribly lazy but damn, cliffs?
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Error404 View Post
I listed in wars in which the US was involved or had some type of involvement.

You asked:

I stated we had been involved in wars/conflicts with Islamic nations. Yousef demanded we stay out of Middle Easts internal conflicts. Which from my list, we hadn't.

Just because no troop movement was made didn't mean we didn't have our hand in it somewhere.

If I finance and give the needed materials to perform a robbery, should I be let go because I actually wasn't there? Same thing goes here. We finance and supply those conflicts.

I said:

Which is what we did with these wars.

You said:


1953, Iran? Ring any bells?


It wasn't across. It was a 12 mile extension. Again, WE (US) sent OUR naval forces ACROSS the globe. This issue was that regions problems, NOT OURS.

NATO is a joke, and always has been. All it does is bring other countries into an involvement they have no reason to be in.


Again. We came in, and TOLD them, "Hey! We can come do naval exercises within 12 nautical miles of your shore. This is standard."

We challenged them. Again, we became the bully.

What would happen if Libya or North Korea decided to do naval exercise 12 miles off our shore, like we did with Libya?



A nightclub in a different country was bombed, and we do an airstrike. Yeah, we don't get involved.





We supplied biochemical weapons to Iraq. We also used the "bear spares" program for Iraq. Provided military training to Iraq. Again, yeah, we had no involvement.



Again:



Didn't we lose a F-16? We also lost a Predator if I recall.


Again, not our problem, also again, we stepped in why? Also, the leaders of the coup (Cedras and Francois) were paid by the CIA and had received US training before the incident.



Persuaded?
The only reason they stepped down was because of the number of troops ready to forcefully enter Haiti. They didn't talk going "Oh, will you please let them re-enter power? We'd really appreciate it."


You forgot to mention the striking of a pharmaceutical factory. Which was later reported to have no initial linking to Osama bin Laden like was reported by intelligence agencies. It was the main source of pharmaceuticals for Sudan, and Germany's ambassador for Sudan said "probably led to tens of thousands of deaths" of Sudanese civilians.

Also:

Weird, that says "American involvement" and "torture" right? Yeah, we'd never torture


Just because we didn't have feet on the ground means we should be cleared for involvement?


I never said the incidents I posted were for overthrowing government. Your as bad politicians when it comes to putting words in peoples mouth.

Although I can make a list of where covert operations had been reported to overthrow goverments (regime change, has a nice name to it doesn't it, makes it sound more positive.)
  • Iran - 1953
  • Guatemala - 1954
  • Cuba - 1959
  • Congo - 1960
  • Iraq - 1963
  • Brazil - 1964
  • Ghana - 1966
  • Iraq - 1968
  • Chile - 1973
  • Afghanistan - 1973 (Weird, we're there currently aren't we? )
  • Iraq - 1975 (Man. Seems like we really like this place.)
  • Argentina - 1976
  • Afghanistan - 1978 to 80s (We like this place as well.)
  • Iran - 1980
  • Nicaragua - 1981 to 94
  • El Salvador - 1982
  • Angola - ~1980
  • Philippines - 1986
  • Iraq - 1992 to 95
  • Guatemala - 1993
  • Serbia - 2000
  • Venezuela - 2002
  • Haiti - 2004
  • Palestine - 2006
  • Somalia - 06 to 07
  • Iraq - 2001 to Present

Just one or two places.

I said:




I see what you did there.
Forget it guy.

You opened mouth, inserted your foot..... now you are going so far back in time that even Osama Bin Ladens' daddy didn't know what the word terrorism was.

1953???

The US was too far into Segregation, The McCarthy Hearings, (every was a Russian spy then) Russian Invasion to even know about an Islamic Revolution..... again...go back and READ!!!! (Hint, hint, Middle East...)

You are the weakest link.....
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We fight to protect whats behind us."
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:47 PM   #59
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I normally don't bump old posts but thought this was interesting, former Miss America claims she was violated.




+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:35 PM   #60
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If she was sexually assulted like she claims, then why isn't she talking to the local police department filing criminal charges?

Former Miss USA + viral youtube video = New Reality Show
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