03 Western Canadian Off Road Championships
10-05-2002, 10:43 PM
#16
Yea to the point for TQ as it gives incentive for racers and Don brings up a good point about placing too much importance on the final.i do agree it should have a bit more importance than the points series races but the tie breaker system would make the final most important.
10-07-2002, 10:53 AM
#18
I also think a cup would be a cool idea. We use silver plated one here for our annual Kelowna/Kamloops Club Cup series and it looks really sweet. (I wish it stayed in Kelowna A little more though) Every year we add a small plaque to the base. I believe it's less than 10:00 to do. If I remember correctly, the cup costed around $150.00. I would be fine with this amount as a one time shot.
regarding who pays for all the other trophies. I think that should be up to the host club. These events should be well attended and $30 and $20 entrance fee's should cover the cost of the trophies. For the final there should be a minimum on how many positions receive trophies. Any feedback on this?
Darren at Speedybones.com has volunteered to do the website for us and will host it on his site. Chris, he can set it up so you can go in and update the points. I,m just waiting to we get most of the details on the series hammered out before I give him the green light.
regarding who pays for all the other trophies. I think that should be up to the host club. These events should be well attended and $30 and $20 entrance fee's should cover the cost of the trophies. For the final there should be a minimum on how many positions receive trophies. Any feedback on this?
Darren at Speedybones.com has volunteered to do the website for us and will host it on his site. Chris, he can set it up so you can go in and update the points. I,m just waiting to we get most of the details on the series hammered out before I give him the green light.
10-07-2002, 07:31 PM
#20
Rob Schneider:
Each club will do their own trophys for their own race. As to how many you want to do I guess that is up to what % of your total take that your willing to spend as a club. I would think that 25-30% should be great so that the clubs can make a bit of money or at least break even to help improve their facilities.
I myself have found over the last number of years that maybe too many trophys are handed out (incuring large costs for clubs). I remember when only 1-3 for the A Main and a medal for the B Main winner was all there was. When you came home with a trophy at least you really earned it and it meant something to you. I think that going to a race and doing well should be incentive enough for bragging rights until the next one. I would add TQ trophys of some sort to this mix.
My own feelings for more trophys than the above is for the Novice Classes only. These are new young racers and maybe this is their first event and if they get some sort of token prize then that is cool for a first timer or young racer (I remember when our club used to give out ribbons after every club race to the top 4 in each class. Your walls were tacked with red, blue, yellow, white ribbons from each season, eventually having shoe boxfulls of them, LOL).
But I think keeping the costs down would be a good idea!
I'll be able to get to some ideas and trophy costs that the clubs can help decide on in the next week. I definitely want to keep the costs down and maximum at the $150 range you stated per club.
The costs will depend on the following....
Now the hard part, how many classes do we want for this Series?
1. Mod truck
2. Stock Truck
3. Mod and/or Stock Buggy or 4WD Mod? (Is there enough
buggy drivers to even warrant these classes/)
4. 1/10 Gas Truck
5. 1/8 Gas Buggy
6. Tmaxx (.15's or.21's or open to all)?
7. Or.....?
Lets get this all hashed out for classes so we can keep moving along. If clubs don't give any input to this then they have no reason to complain when the trophys get made and the season starts.
Let the class voting begin.....
Each club will do their own trophys for their own race. As to how many you want to do I guess that is up to what % of your total take that your willing to spend as a club. I would think that 25-30% should be great so that the clubs can make a bit of money or at least break even to help improve their facilities.
I myself have found over the last number of years that maybe too many trophys are handed out (incuring large costs for clubs). I remember when only 1-3 for the A Main and a medal for the B Main winner was all there was. When you came home with a trophy at least you really earned it and it meant something to you. I think that going to a race and doing well should be incentive enough for bragging rights until the next one. I would add TQ trophys of some sort to this mix.
My own feelings for more trophys than the above is for the Novice Classes only. These are new young racers and maybe this is their first event and if they get some sort of token prize then that is cool for a first timer or young racer (I remember when our club used to give out ribbons after every club race to the top 4 in each class. Your walls were tacked with red, blue, yellow, white ribbons from each season, eventually having shoe boxfulls of them, LOL).
But I think keeping the costs down would be a good idea!
I'll be able to get to some ideas and trophy costs that the clubs can help decide on in the next week. I definitely want to keep the costs down and maximum at the $150 range you stated per club.
The costs will depend on the following....
Now the hard part, how many classes do we want for this Series?
1. Mod truck
2. Stock Truck
3. Mod and/or Stock Buggy or 4WD Mod? (Is there enough
buggy drivers to even warrant these classes/)
4. 1/10 Gas Truck
5. 1/8 Gas Buggy
6. Tmaxx (.15's or.21's or open to all)?
7. Or.....?
Lets get this all hashed out for classes so we can keep moving along. If clubs don't give any input to this then they have no reason to complain when the trophys get made and the season starts.
Let the class voting begin.....
10-08-2002, 12:12 PM
#21
Stock/Mod Truck and buggy would be normal but not many in our club run that.A few have buggy and truck just not many.Gas classes of course since there are a lot of them.I suggest that the first race in the year determines what the Final trophy count should represent.If a larger than usual amount of electrics come out then that is a great sign.I know there will be more people coming out to race just for this reason and we may expect bigger electric classes but that is just here.
10-08-2002, 06:59 PM
#22
Wow - tons of traffic, this is GREAT!
I vote Kelowna too but I speak for no-one but myself
You'll have to ask the club pres from Edmonton - Daryl Balaberta. I've already got clearance from my wife so I'll be there HA HA.
I vote for a championship cup for the 3 biggest classes by entries TBD after 3 of the points races so we know which classes will be biggest. Cups are expensive...
I vote for Red Deer for an Alberta champs... but I also reserve the right to change my minde after the new Edmonton track is built HA HA.
Inferno - I hear you on the spring thing... attached to the slide/barrel is all thats needed.
60%/40% also sounds better than 50-50 to me.
1 point for TQ is cool by me.
Trophies - at the championship all A-main, top 3 of rest. For all other races top-3 is fine. I don't like plaques myself - but hey whatever the host club wants. Big trophies are not necessary except the 1st place ones should be nice. At the champs race there should be a trophie for the fastest gas lap and the fastest electric lap.
Also - I think a formally judged Concours for the final would be great... with plaques. By formally judged I mean same as the Roar rules (back of the book.) If its going to be informal then might as well not bother.
Oh yea 120% by laps for gas is cool by me
Chris.
I vote Kelowna too but I speak for no-one but myself
You'll have to ask the club pres from Edmonton - Daryl Balaberta. I've already got clearance from my wife so I'll be there HA HA.I vote for a championship cup for the 3 biggest classes by entries TBD after 3 of the points races so we know which classes will be biggest. Cups are expensive...
I vote for Red Deer for an Alberta champs... but I also reserve the right to change my minde after the new Edmonton track is built HA HA.
Inferno - I hear you on the spring thing... attached to the slide/barrel is all thats needed.
60%/40% also sounds better than 50-50 to me.
1 point for TQ is cool by me.
Trophies - at the championship all A-main, top 3 of rest. For all other races top-3 is fine. I don't like plaques myself - but hey whatever the host club wants. Big trophies are not necessary except the 1st place ones should be nice. At the champs race there should be a trophie for the fastest gas lap and the fastest electric lap.
Also - I think a formally judged Concours for the final would be great... with plaques. By formally judged I mean same as the Roar rules (back of the book.) If its going to be informal then might as well not bother.
Oh yea 120% by laps for gas is cool by me
Chris.
10-08-2002, 08:08 PM
#23
Chris!
I fail to see why trophies for the Final have to be anymore than the other races. If a club wants to do 1-3 or 1-5 or 1-10 that is their option. Then TQ and Concours added in. The Championship Race is just another trophy race except for those in the Championship contention for their class. All racers have a chance to win a regular trophy but only 1 racer in each class will win the Cup for the year. There could be (ex.1-3 racers tied in points from the seasons races but it will be broken at the Final by either TQ and finishing position or just maybe finishing position).
ex. 1st race- Rob wins in Coquitlam and TQ's =100+1=101points
Don comes in 2nd = 99points
2nd race- Don wins in Quesnel and TQ's = 100+1= 101 points
Rob comes in 2nd = 99 points
Now lets say neither one of us could make any more races so we have no races to throw out. We then go to the Final tied with 200
points each from 2 races.......BUT.....
Chris went to Red Deer and Calgary and won both and TQ'd. So Chris has 202 points and in the lead heading to the Final.
Now the final..
Rob wins the final but no TQ = 200+100 = 300 points
Don comes in 2nd and TQ's =200 +99+1 = 300 points
Chris comes in 3rd = 202+98 = 300 points
Rob wins the Cup because he placed highest at the Final even though 3 racers were tied at the end for points. Doesn't get any fairer than that seems to me.
When trophys are handed out Rob gets the 1st place Kelowna.
Don gets the 2nd place Kelowna.
Chris gets the 3rd place Kelowna
After all the regular race trophies are handed out to all racers including the TQ's then the Western Canadian Champions are declared and the cups are handed out (to lift high over your head and get pics of it) along with the take home trophy to each Western Canadian winner. Rob gets another one!
I think that if the Final is compulsory as the 3rd race and the tie breaker as well that makes it pretty IMPORTANT don't you think?
There is absolutely no need for anything different. Its easy to count and maintain points and a racer has a good idea when he gets to the final what he needs to do to win a Championship.
Thats my feelings on it......
ex. 1st race- Rob wins in Coquitlam and TQ's =100+1=101points
Don comes in 2nd = 99points
2nd race- Don wins in Quesnel and TQ's = 100+1= 101 points
Rob comes in 2nd = 99 points
Now lets say neither one of us could make any more races so we have no races to throw out. We then go to the Final tied with 200
points each from 2 races.......BUT.....
Chris went to Red Deer and Calgary and won both and TQ'd. So Chris has 202 points and in the lead heading to the Final.
Now the final..
Rob wins the final but no TQ = 200+100 = 300 points
Don comes in 2nd and TQ's =200 +99+1 = 300 points
Chris comes in 3rd = 202+98 = 300 points
Rob wins the Cup because he placed highest at the Final even though 3 racers were tied at the end for points. Doesn't get any fairer than that seems to me.
When trophys are handed out Rob gets the 1st place Kelowna.
Don gets the 2nd place Kelowna.
Chris gets the 3rd place Kelowna
After all the regular race trophies are handed out to all racers including the TQ's then the Western Canadian Champions are declared and the cups are handed out (to lift high over your head and get pics of it) along with the take home trophy to each Western Canadian winner. Rob gets another one!
I think that if the Final is compulsory as the 3rd race and the tie breaker as well that makes it pretty IMPORTANT don't you think?
There is absolutely no need for anything different. Its easy to count and maintain points and a racer has a good idea when he gets to the final what he needs to do to win a Championship.
Thats my feelings on it......
10-09-2002, 08:03 AM
#25
Exactly!
Inferno:
Yes, it makes it very easy to do the points system and see where you are as the season progresses.
And yes, every class that is a Championship Class will have a nice cup. I think every class is just as important whether its electric or nitro. All racers are paying the same monies to race and travel so there should be no difference. A lot of racers have lots of money tied up in the equipment for the electric classes (I know, I have been there). All the racers in every Championship Class can be very proud of their accomplishments especially if they win the Championship.
Heck, if you lose the Championship by a hair I'm sure that you'd be stoked for revenge to not let it get away the following year. Thats what we are trying to develop here, a Championship Series
for Gas and Electric classes that gives you something to shoot for every off road season.
Chris:
Hows the rules ideas coming along?
I have one more thing to add. Some were saying that we develop which would be the Championship Classes after 2-3 races into the season. I think it would be better for all concerned if we just decide what the Championship Classes will be. WHY? Because if a racer wants to enter a class then it gives him/her the off season to save funds for equipment for that class. Not everyone has unlimited dollars to just jump on the band wagon for any class. I know that there are some young good racers that would maybe try a second class if they know its available but they would have to save up and the winter months gives them some well needed time.
Yes, it makes it very easy to do the points system and see where you are as the season progresses.
And yes, every class that is a Championship Class will have a nice cup. I think every class is just as important whether its electric or nitro. All racers are paying the same monies to race and travel so there should be no difference. A lot of racers have lots of money tied up in the equipment for the electric classes (I know, I have been there). All the racers in every Championship Class can be very proud of their accomplishments especially if they win the Championship.
Heck, if you lose the Championship by a hair I'm sure that you'd be stoked for revenge to not let it get away the following year. Thats what we are trying to develop here, a Championship Series
for Gas and Electric classes that gives you something to shoot for every off road season.
Chris:
Hows the rules ideas coming along?
I have one more thing to add. Some were saying that we develop which would be the Championship Classes after 2-3 races into the season. I think it would be better for all concerned if we just decide what the Championship Classes will be. WHY? Because if a racer wants to enter a class then it gives him/her the off season to save funds for equipment for that class. Not everyone has unlimited dollars to just jump on the band wagon for any class. I know that there are some young good racers that would maybe try a second class if they know its available but they would have to save up and the winter months gives them some well needed time.
10-09-2002, 11:51 AM
#26
I Agree Don. I still think full A trophies at the big race would be nice but it is up to the club like you said.
The points system looks fair to me... and the tie breaker seems fair too.
I haven't worked on the simple rules book yet - but I am planning to this long weekend
Chris.
The points system looks fair to me... and the tie breaker seems fair too.
I haven't worked on the simple rules book yet - but I am planning to this long weekend
Chris.
10-09-2002, 12:38 PM
#27
Don't mind me I am still a bit off from this bearing blower thing.I did blow the clutch bearings in the big race in Kelowna but stuff happens.I don't want to rely on this as an excuse .If I loose a race it is because someone beat what I was able to deliver.I hope that I race many races without breaking anything but that Is near impossible.
Now as for The series we have six or seven clubs that are in so this makes it easy for the final trophys.1/8th buggy,1/10th truck gas,buggy stock,buggy mod,truck stock,truck mod,T-Maxx.
Each club donates to the final amount cost of trophys which adds up to 1/7th or equal portion per club.If any sponsors get on board with this idea....(hmmm is anyone working on this?)then it could make the racing a bit less expensive for all of us.
.If I loose a race it is because someone beat what I was able to deliver.I hope that I race many races without breaking anything but that Is near impossible.Now as for The series we have six or seven clubs that are in so this makes it easy for the final trophys.1/8th buggy,1/10th truck gas,buggy stock,buggy mod,truck stock,truck mod,T-Maxx.
Each club donates to the final amount cost of trophys which adds up to 1/7th or equal portion per club.If any sponsors get on board with this idea....(hmmm is anyone working on this?)then it could make the racing a bit less expensive for all of us.
10-09-2002, 03:57 PM
#29
Chris:
Cool on the points thing. Its simple and easily gets the job done.
As to trophys each club can decide what they need for the classes run at each individual race. Keep in touch on the rules thing....
Inferno:
Hey man, just joshing you, but it was funny. Gas is gas, sometimes its not your day no matter what (I've been there too).
On the trophy thing you grasped what I meant. If theres 6-7 classes then we divide the total cost for the Championship trophies by the clubs involved in the Series. As I stated I'd definitely like to keep the costs down to a maximum of $150 per club or really close to that. I also think that we should get a good handle on the Electric Buggy classes as to totals as buggys were pretty scarce last season. The most was 5 mod total at two different races and NO stock buggys at all. I don't think making clubs pay for Championship trophies for small classes is fair......but
they could possibly be run just as a regular trophy race class just not a Championship Class ( say a minimum of 5 pre-registered to run either class). I hate to turn racers away from racing but there really has to be a big turn around in people racing buggys for it to be viable at all. (nothing worse than a class with 2-4 cars running triple A Mains).
Inferno, are you speaking for the Coquitlam club only or for the whole mainland clan? Are Roger and Wes combining resources or what? If not, ask them to please put there thoughts and ideas out here.
Gary, Delmo, Daryl what do you guys think of this so far?
General agreed concensus is:
1. Final to be run Sept. 2003 LW in Kelowna.
2. Coquitlam 1st Series race May LW 2003.
3. Quesnel Series Race August LW 2003
4. All participating clubs in the Series to split Championship
Trophys equally (around $150 maximum)
5. Doing the points system as I descibed in above post (easy and
simple). Chris from Edmonton to be points moderator.
6. Having 1/8 gas, 1/10 gas truck, T-Maxx, Mod truck, Stock truck,
(maybe 1/10 buggy classes).
7. Clubs responsible for their own trophy costs at own races.
More to come........
Cool on the points thing. Its simple and easily gets the job done.
As to trophys each club can decide what they need for the classes run at each individual race. Keep in touch on the rules thing....
Inferno:
Hey man, just joshing you, but it was funny. Gas is gas, sometimes its not your day no matter what (I've been there too).
On the trophy thing you grasped what I meant. If theres 6-7 classes then we divide the total cost for the Championship trophies by the clubs involved in the Series. As I stated I'd definitely like to keep the costs down to a maximum of $150 per club or really close to that. I also think that we should get a good handle on the Electric Buggy classes as to totals as buggys were pretty scarce last season. The most was 5 mod total at two different races and NO stock buggys at all. I don't think making clubs pay for Championship trophies for small classes is fair......but
they could possibly be run just as a regular trophy race class just not a Championship Class ( say a minimum of 5 pre-registered to run either class). I hate to turn racers away from racing but there really has to be a big turn around in people racing buggys for it to be viable at all. (nothing worse than a class with 2-4 cars running triple A Mains).
Inferno, are you speaking for the Coquitlam club only or for the whole mainland clan? Are Roger and Wes combining resources or what? If not, ask them to please put there thoughts and ideas out here.
Gary, Delmo, Daryl what do you guys think of this so far?
General agreed concensus is:
1. Final to be run Sept. 2003 LW in Kelowna.
2. Coquitlam 1st Series race May LW 2003.
3. Quesnel Series Race August LW 2003
4. All participating clubs in the Series to split Championship
Trophys equally (around $150 maximum)
5. Doing the points system as I descibed in above post (easy and
simple). Chris from Edmonton to be points moderator.
6. Having 1/8 gas, 1/10 gas truck, T-Maxx, Mod truck, Stock truck,
(maybe 1/10 buggy classes).
7. Clubs responsible for their own trophy costs at own races.
More to come........
10-09-2002, 10:46 PM
#30
Everything is looking good to me so far. I tend to agree that there are too many trophies being handed out at the races these days. My feeling is that if you crack the top five you should go home with something. But hey, lets leave it up to the clubs holding the race. Nice and Simple.
The points also look good to me.
As far as classes go, I think we should include all. A lot of it will come down to regional interest at the final. In Kelowna we have a decent stock buggy class. There may not be enough stock buggies at any of the other events to run, but that just means that everyone who runs that class at the final will be tied with zero points going in. As long as we stick with the pre registration, the clubs should not get stuck buying trophies for no show classes. This may also boost interest in some of the poorly attended classes. A class should have a min. of 4 entries to run.
A couple other minor things that could be put in the rules. Mostly they are pet peeves of mine.
1) Qualifying results should be posted where the can be viewed by the racers.
2) The starting grid should be at least 8 feet apart. Qualifying should count for something.
Any dates set for Alberta yet?
The points also look good to me.
As far as classes go, I think we should include all. A lot of it will come down to regional interest at the final. In Kelowna we have a decent stock buggy class. There may not be enough stock buggies at any of the other events to run, but that just means that everyone who runs that class at the final will be tied with zero points going in. As long as we stick with the pre registration, the clubs should not get stuck buying trophies for no show classes. This may also boost interest in some of the poorly attended classes. A class should have a min. of 4 entries to run.
A couple other minor things that could be put in the rules. Mostly they are pet peeves of mine.
1) Qualifying results should be posted where the can be viewed by the racers.
2) The starting grid should be at least 8 feet apart. Qualifying should count for something.
Any dates set for Alberta yet?