Hi i maybe opening a can of worms here , but i am new to the car r/c scene but not r/c, planes until recently ( i have posts elsewhere on this site) , i see the is a lack of support from a canadian body like M.A.A.C. we have in the aircraft world that provide insurance and some regulation to that area of the r/c world. How much work/effort would it be for M.A.A.C, to have a office for the cars ??. is anybody intrested/is it needed ??, i know the is ROAR but thats US based and is not really in touch with the canadian way/intrests, if its somthing we would like to see happen ,,,, what are your thoughts on this ??
as i said before i may be upsetting people with this and i have no intention of doing that .
Britman....it's not the first time that MAAC has been suggested as a possible reolacement for ROAR, and the suggestion certainly won't upset very many people given the current feelings almost everywhere about ROAR.
The question is whether or not they'd be willing, and whether they's actually be any better. (Mind you, could ANY organisation be worse ?!)
I think that before we make any irrevocable decision about changing our governing body, we should have some kind of consensus as to what we really want to change. I suspect there are a lot of us who are dissatisfied with ROAR, but for a million different reasons. That being the case, just changing the governing body won't really change much.
I can tell you that MAAC would be interested. They approached me when I was in Hamilton with RJ and Gary last year. There was an interest to form a sanctioning body that would be affiliated with ROAR, and had memberships that were accepted on both sides of the border. As they do with their aviation counterpart in the US.
I don't think that the question is would they be interested, but rather can we get 5 people to sit down together and hash out a set of rules for Canada? I don't think so.
When wondering if we want a sanctioning body ask yourselves if that is what is really need. No one really travels from either side of the country, this won't change no matter who the sanctioning body is. Most racers don't even want to travel out of their provinces. We don't utilize the insurance, even though we are covered. Changing to MAAC won't make racers go "Hey I got insurance". Also the only way that clubs are covered is if all racers have a membership to the sanctioning body.
MAAC would probrobly be a good way to go, but I think more could be achieved with clubs in Canada doing what they have in the past. Run the basic ROAR rules, throw out the ones you don't like, and have a good weekend racing. From what I have been told this is what is going to happen anyways.
Worrying about sanctioned racing has taken the fun out of RC. Who does it benifit? Racers who are looking for sponsorships and a few clubs who recieve grants.
So I ask again do we really need a sanctioning body? This is what should be decided 1st.
I believe we DO need a sanctioning body. If we are going to get any recognition as an organised sport, then we have to have a National organisation to sanction Regional and National championships. Without these, then we are indeed just "racing for bowling trophies", and do not merit any form of assistance or co-operation from local or regional authorities.
Our club in Kamloops has received considerable assistance from the City of Kamloops over the past seven or eight years precisely because we are able to bid for Regional and National level events. This has come in the form of grants to assist the club with major events, and in the provision of a site to hold our races. Even now, when they have had to take away our outdoors track due to political pressures, they are actively working with us to find an alternative site, and they will help us to get the track up to an adequate standard.
We do not need ROAR, as such. But we do need something in their place, be it MAAC or some other form of organisation...even an Association of R/C Clubs. It doesn't matter what form the organization takes, as long as there is one.
Given the difficulty of getting any three or four people in our sport to agree on virtually anything, I'd favour going with MAAC and giving them a chance to show us what they can do for us. If they can get an affiliation with ROAR, in the same way that the British organisation is affiliated with the European Association, that might give us the best of both worlds....racers like Korgae could continue to race on both sides of the border yet keep just one membership. And MAAC would be able to vary the ROAR rules for strictly Canadian events if it saw fit.
I suppose the question would be whether ROAR is a sufficiently mature organisation to see the benefit of that kind of re-organisation. I wouldn't bet on it.
I think maybe the first move would have to be a discussion at club level amongst commitee members and then the club itself to get fedback etc from all angles , and then those thoughts should be directed to the MAAC rep in your area and see what his comments are and encorage him/them to speak on behalf of the clubs at their meetings., the insurance coverage offerd by ROAR is it US based and what would their support be if a new member joining a club not aware of frequency conflicts and turning on his transmitter sending one of the Nitro Rockets raced at many of our tracks out of control and braking a 6 year olds ankle at a competition here in Canada.. ( it could/may have already happend i don,t know ), thats one of the biggest fears while flying r/c planes is the uninformed that start out in the hobbie( i,m thankful for the insurance alone ), and of course we need to keep our hobbie just that a hobbie we all have more than our share of rules/regulations in our lives as it is , but as we/the clubs organise various events througout the year and encourage the public with posters in hobbie stores to come and join us we should have some protection ...
The insurances for ROAR are us based, but their coverage is good for Canada and Mexico as well. I have spoken with their insurance writers personally on this matter.
I think that the insurance is a good idea, but everyone who races at a participating track must be a member for the policy to be valid. Is it the same under MAAC.
The biggest headache and the reason why I question whether we needed a sanctioning body is the rules. From Calgary to Vancouver each club has its own set of rules they like, and they change all the way across. Some people want to run foam instead of rubber, somepeople want to run 2 door bodies instead of 4, some people don't like the fact they are not allowed to run stock and mod in the same class. Over the last 2 years I have come to see that people are more concerned with what they can and cannot do, than with what they are doing.
Believe me I would like to see sanctioning races, but as far as that goes Canada has a lot of growing up to do. Either that or make up their own rules for their own organization, which will not further cheapen our events.
On a final note as the ROAR National Director, well for the next month anyways. I have already contacted the appropriate people at MAAC to see what they have in mind. I will try to approach ROAR to see if anything can be done for affiliation.
I can hear the "yeah whatever comments" already. If you are one of these people who are making them, you are the ones who need to address whether or not you want sanctioning racing in Canada. The biotching needs to stop, the rules are set for sanctioned racing, either accept them ordon't race under them. whether it be under ROAR or MAAC. All the complaining just ruins it for those who just want to race.
As someone who has "bitched" in the past, I guess I maight as well do it again. I do not object to a reasonable number of rules, particularly for major events. Nevertheless, I believe that ROAR has TOO MANY rules, many of which are - in my opinion - totally unnecessary in our Canadian context.
By Canadian context, I mean a situation where major races are looking for more entries, where the field is undersubscribed. Rules that are too restrictive discourage many entries and often push up the cost of running major events. This hurts us all in our efforts to get the sport more widely recognised. If our major races were oversubscribed, with organizers having to turn away entries, the situation might be different.
ROAR's insistence that we have to "grow up" and blindly follow every rule that might be needed on some of the specialist tracks down in the States is arrogant and insulting. Many of their rules such as "spec tires" for Off Road races are totally unneccessary up here - we just don't have the type of tracks (ultra-hard, "blue groove" etc) that have created the need for that kind of rule. So why insist on it ?
And my personal hobby-horse.....4 door bodies ! Who cares ? There are a wonderful range of really nice bodies out there, which allow us to duplicate our own favourite "real live" race cars. How many 4-door cars do you see in touring car races these days ? Virtually none. They went the way of the dinosaur when "Super Touring" finally met its unlamented end. I don't believe there is a major Touring car series anywhere in the world that requires these rather ugly "tin tops". All ROAR's "4-door" rule has done is to create a class where everyone drives a copy of one of the less successful Touring Cars that was dropped by it's own manufacturer (as a race car) after only two years. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's BORING. Why do we NEED such a rule ?
Rules such as the use of Rubber tires I have no problem with for sanctioned racing. Personally, I hate driving TC's on rubber on carpet (and I hope that it's going to change !). But I do recognise that it is needed, because Foam Tires are much quicker than rubber (try it, if you don't believe me), and give their drivers a definite advantage. But at club level, who cares ? The fast guys run rubber, to keep in practice for their sanctioned races, and the "club" racers run foam, making the fast guys work a bit harder to win. I believe that is healthy.
And when it comes down to it, everyone has the right to decide whether they will run under the rules or not run. Personally I haven't driven a TC at a major race for over three years now, although I enjoy racing them at club level. That's my decision, and I'm comfortable with it. I don't need to run in major events. But for many of the racers I call the "fast" guys, I think you DO need the big races, because if all you had was local club races, you'd be bored right out of your tree and looking for something else to do very quickly.
Just my personal opinions.
Oh yes, in case you didn't know. The British R/C governing body (I think it's the BRCC) sanctions Regional and National level racing in the UK. It is affiliated with the European Sanctioning body, and nominates British teams to the European and World Championships. The BRCC has no qualms about allowing different rules for British racing. I don't know the details, but was told by a BRCC rep that there are a number of differences. Drivers who go to the European or World championships simply have to comply with the extra European rules for those events. So that would give MAAC - or any other body - a precedent for not enforcing every single ROAR rule, even if affiliated with them.
Ok here I go. Do we need orginization? Yes. Are we as Canadians going to be able to agree on them? More than likely not. Why? Each area of racing(geographically) wants something different and we are so few racers that everyone thinks that some rule is an infringement on their rights to race. I got away from organizing clubs and events for a reason, no matter what you do someone has to bitch about something. In 8 years of organizing events, only one person ever said thank you to me.
If Maac want's to try and organize Canadian racing, all the power to them. They have one hell of a job ahead of them.
PS I haven't got a reply about the Tri-Cities races question I had.
Suncity is racing here in kelowna this weekend. We run stock,mod and pan car. As far as tires go it's open and bodies go that's all so open. Last race we had a GT40 that looked great so hope to see everyone here and bring out what ever cool bodies you have........
I feel I must appologize if I offended anyone. I just feel that if talk of a new organization was going to take place, a lot of issues needed to be included in those discusions.
I agree with Ren with most of what he says. Spec tires, no need. 4 door bodies, well who really cares, except were do you draw the line at 2 door bodies? Do we include GT? Rubber or foam let the clubs decide. Handout stock motors, a good solution was inputed for this in the summer. People must submit a motor prior to the event, then they are given out to those who registered randomly. Also the system they have in England looks good. Yet I don't think it is the answer.
The only reason that we need ROAR right now is so that someone couldgo to the worlds if they qualified and wanted to go. If individuals are interested in that they can always go to the US to qualify. BTW IFMAR events carry a $200 us entry fee per class.
Lets go to some topics that I hope won't offend anyone. These are also some topics that will need to be hashed out for a new sanctioning body.
1. Should there be a entry deadline? Why or why not.
2. Should the Race Director and tech director be able to race? Why or Why not.
3. Should some sort of Stock motor control be implimented?
4. Tech of cars? How involved should this process be?
As far as my insistence obout Canada growing up regarding sanctioned racing. The ligitimacy of our events will never be taken seriously until this happens. Any racer in Canada will attest to the fact that right now Canadian events are not taken seriously outside our borders. We need to grow up and quit riding the fence. Lets figure out what we want changed and get it changed. Whether it be a new organization or an almalgimation of clubs it really doesn't matter. Lets just get it figured so that when we attend a race everyone will be happy.
The ball is rolling lets not get bent out of shape and have some input from more people across Canada. I know you guys are reading this.
i am not one of the people bitching i am new to this hobbie as i have already said, and just intrested in canadas position in what is a great hobbie , that has events run under american rules and not ours !!, and reading other posts on this section the is alot of negative feeling toward roar and they need to be addressed. i,m sure the are others looking at this and hope they will share their views !!
Just thought I'd add my two centa. While the ROAR rulebook could choke a buffalo I believe it is the America view of Canada that is lacking. There are 13 regions in the US while Canada is lumped into one. Paul is stuck with over seeing 3/4 of the country from Calgary. In my humble opinion this speaks volumes on how ROAR views Canada. While people have to approach ROAR to report the unrest of some unhappy locals why isn't ROAR doing some foot work and some promoting up here. If Canada is to grow up ROAR may have to step up to bat and help. It doesn't help when ROAR's website links to Canada are less than five and some haven't been updated in over a year. Kamloops loses the outdoor track after holding a national event a few years before and ROAR doesn't really seem to notice. Other organizations like CASCAR or NHRA would be a little concerned if they lost a facility. If ROAR approached Canadas to grow stronger grassroot regions and clubs, seperated pro from sportman classes and looked at development before inforcement they probably wouldn't appear to be quite so elitest.
canadian r/c scene
This is what should be decided 1st.
r/c in canada
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