I am not here to promote ROAR, MAAC or any other organization.
Yet to answer your questions, Clubs are holding onto affiliations for about as long as racers are after a national event. The only club that has recently renewed without holding an event every year was Calgary.
Other than posting entry forms in Rev-Up, if they are submitted as they were this year, no ROAR does not offer marketing assistance for clubs. Niether does NORCCA or MAAC. I highly doubt that you will find this option from any sanctioning body.
ROAR does not have any plans for Canada, to my understanding they think of Norht America as a whole.
Also to answer an earlier post ROAR didn't help out the Ranch Pit stop after they held a national event and closed. There have been plenty of track closures throughout the US and Canada. So I don't think they were ignoring Kamloops's problem. It was a political problem to which nothing ROAR would have said would have made a difference.
You guys can have fun with this one.I can see were this debate is headed and I want no part of it. It almost appeared to be moving in a positive direction, but that was just a misconception.
Whoa....Paul, you are absolutely right that ROAR could not have done anything about Kamloops losing it's track AT ITS PREVIOUS LOCATION. That was indeed a totally political decision, and in the long run we come out of it ahead of the game. So please, Greg, don't blame ROAR over this.
To take this a step further, it is precisely because there is the possibility of Kamloops running Regional or National races in the future that Kamloops Parks and Recreation are actively looking for a new site for us. I am meeting with two of their officials later this morning to go and look at a potential location. This cooperation would not exist without some form of national sanctioning body.
ROAR has been sanction racing for over 30 years
this needs to be used more
clubs should hold ROAR memberships for two years before holding sanctioned events.
No wonder roar has no vision for Canada we don't have a stable membership program.
5 year plan: make this a rule because you can't do it overnight.
PLEASE SELL ROAR PAUL everyone taking shots at it and it needs to be sold.
There now is something else out there to look at and if we start splitting up are sanuctioning we may all be racing for bowling trophies or losing out on what little we have.
Glad to see someone come to Paul ( and roar) he was starting to look lonely with Korgae stepping down.
Brent and I went out to look at a possible site for a new Kamloops outdoor track earlier this morning. We will have details for interested racers at the Kamloops race this Sunday.
Basically it has tremendous potential, for both a dirt track and a paved track, and it has washrooms, a secure lock-up, power and water. It is also about 20 minutes closer for drivers coming from Calgary or the Okanagan
If the rest of the club approve, we'll get back to the City next week to get things rolling !
re Viking Guy's comments about clubs holding a ROAR membership for at least two years before holding a sanctioned race....that's something we should have thought of long ago. Simple, and effective ! I'd go with that.
Still gotta get rid of some of the more restrictive rules, though. And I said SOME, Paul, not a lot of them. Only those that really don't make sense in the current Canadian context.
Lastly (no. I'm not getting mad at you, Paul), re the way racers in the USA and ROAR itself looks at Canadian Championship races as being a bit below par....I really don't think it has anything to do with our opinions on their rules. I think it's more a reflection on the number of drivers we get (compared to a US ROAR National), and the quality of the top drivers. And frankly I have no problem with that ! We do not have 300 cars entered at our National events, and with a few exceptions, our drivers are mostly unheard of South of the border.
The driver issue is probably never going to change - our drivers cannot race outdoors on-road (or off road) 12 months of the year, and that is what it would take to get top drivers like Pete Tozser, Korgae Scales and Wayne Ma into the groove to really challenge some of the top US drivers. (Mind you, with the steady drop in the number of race tracks in the USA, the gap may not be so big in a few years !)
But if ROAR and the US drivers have a low opinion if our events, do I really care ? It's still OUR National Championships. What WE think about them is what really counts. As far as I can tell, the NASCAR club in Edmonton put on a fine event for On-Road, and I know the Kelowna club did a good job on the Off Road Nationals (even without "spec" tires ).
Here! Here! Ren, much agree with what you have to say. Greg and Paul....also some good comments.
Just a couple of things that I feel strongly about, one being race directors and/or tech directors under ROAR rules, not being able to actually race. I have set up a ROAR National race or two and am totally against not being able to actually race one of these events if I am one of these directors at one of these events. Although this has not yet actually happened to me, it upsets me that apparently, this is the practice that ROAR usually goes by. I like to help in organizing races, set up sponsorships and arrange for "bowlling trophies" at these events but I like even more to actually RACE! That is why I feel for Paul and anyone else who has this job at a major event and is not able to race. How do you think we got into this hobby anyway? Racing is what we love to do!
I am also against hand out motors and spec tires, at least in Canada. We are simple not big enough to be able to afford these items, at least not yet. What I mean is that we do not attract enough racers to our big races for us to be able to afford these items. The proof was seen at the Nationals in Edmonton this past summer. It was a big hassel (correct me if I am wrong guys in Edmonton). I agree these are some of the reasons why changes need to be made or organizations need to be changed or altered to meet our somewhat smaller needs.
Just my two cents.
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Brent
Thompson Valley R/C Race Club - Prez - www.tvrcrc.com
Five 7, I agree 100% with you. With the hand out tires and motors I belive we scared away alot of racers that were thinking of comming to the nats. This hobby is expensive as it is and having to spend money for a new motor and spec tires just to compete at a race is outrageous. Add roar membership and race fees your looking at $150 before you put your car down on the track. Thanks to Hobby direct & Competition R/c , without their support I don't think we would have had the turn out that we got.
Your kidding right? I can't believe that anyone coming to a National event is not going to have new tires and a fresh stock motor.
I read about how ppl believe ROAR doesn't take the Canadian scene seriously. Why should they, we don't take it seriously ourselves.
Hardly anyone will pre-register for an event.
No one will pay their entry fee prior to being at the track.
No one cares if ppl show up with special tweaked out stock motors that others can't get.
So many ppl bitch but those same don't lift a finger to help(not pointing at ppl on this thread)
Quite a few think its funny to try and scam ROAR on rules and memberships.
When I read my rulebook I don't see any major glaring problems. Most ppl's complaints are based on what they deem is a personal choice and not something to try and make racing as equal as possible. Remember we are talking about a SANCTIONED race that is to follow ROAR rules, not the club event on a sunday. I see ppl talk about NASCAR and F1 and such organizations and what they do with racing. They have thier rules and regs also. They use spec tires and limit motors to try and provide an exciting racing for the viewing public. We like to pick and choose what we like and still try to pass it off as a National. The rules are there and they are fair and ROAR is addressing major issues as they arrise.
No matter what, I can not see Canada having its own independent governing body for RC. Just looking back on this thread one can see that there will be no middle ground for some. Its either thier way or no way.
Also remember that a majority of rules pertaining to bodies and such come from IFMAR, the world organization, not ROAR.
Gary, Contrary to what you think, I believe most of us would agree with you. But the issue is less a question of the cost to the racers (because yes, serious competitors will buy new motors and tires for a race). The problem is more that "in the current Canadian content" some of these rules significantly increase the risk of financial loss to an organizing club and/or (if the club's lucky) its sponsors.
In the USA, where ROAR National Champoionships are routinely oversubscribed with entries, it is comparatively easy to estimate the number of motors and tires that will be needed. But here in Canada we do not have that luxury. As the organizer of two past On Road Pavement Nationals, I can tell you that it would have been a nightmare trying to supply spec tires and handout motors to all the drivers. We never had a clear idea of how many would be needed. And if you are supplying motors and tires, you always have to overestimate, because you CANNOT run short. In this way if you overestimate the entry by much, the club could be stuck with a lot of unsaleable tires and motors, that the distributors really don't want back.
OK, how do we deal with this. The idea of each driver supplying the new motors should work, as long as they arrive in good time to enable the organisers to mark them up. This isn't just a couple of minutes job either - to do it properly, you have to indelibly mark both the can and the armature. To all intents, that means drivers MUST turn up at least the day before racing starts. Now we're starting to seriously affect the racer's costs too, aren't we? I know that many of the serious racers will turn up for a day (or two) of practice - but to very many racers that means another day off work, and another night in a hotel, with all the attendant meal costs.
Tires...that one I'm not sure how to deal with. Maybe do it the same way, with racers providing "x" number of sets of tires, and marking them up.
Finally, the pre-registration issue. It's easy to say "just do it". Yes, after a couple of times where your (late) entry is refused, you'll smarten up and do it. But in the meantime, the organising club could be stuck with 50 car entries or less - nowhere near enough to cover its costs for a big event.
We tried to encourage pre-registration at our last nationals by offering a free event T shirt to all those who had at least told us they were coming before a particular deadline. Late entries had to buy one if they wanted one. We didn't even ask people to pay until they got there. It didn't really work - but judging from the b*tching that we were subjected to by those who hadn't bothered to let us know they were coming, it might be more effective next time.
Somehow I think we need to compromise a bit to help build up the entries. The rules for the cars on the track are fine (grumble), they do at least make for reasonably fair racing, even if they seem a bit restrictive. It is the rules relating to the events themselves that I find too restrictive - they force UP the costs to the average racer (OK, not the keen dedicated racer), and until we have a lot more of the keen dedicated types, we will need the average racers. These are the people who fill up the "C to E" mains, the people who would be quite happy to run any stock motor, and who will try to make it through the event on just a set or two of tires. To make our events viable, we need these people, because without them we probably can't run the events at all.
So again I say I don't care if ROAR or USA racers think our events are below par. We have to run our events in a way that makes economic sense in our own context. Accept the fact that we don't have the numbers that they have down there, and tailor our events to fit OUR circumstances.
Oh yes, can the Race Director race....At both the Nationals at which I was the Race Director I did race. I ran one car in a non-sanctioned support class. However, I did not particularly enjoy it, as I had no time to do anything other than put a battery on to charge between races. I couldn't play with the car's set-up, never had the time to actually practice, nor to do a million other things that make racing fun. Frankly, after both the events I've seriously wondered just why I'm even in this sport. The experience is totally negative. If I had to be Race Director again at a major sanctioned race, I doubt I would want to race anyway. I believe the restriction does not apply to anyone else on the organizing team, so as long as you can persuade someone to be Race Director, it's only the one guy who can't race. Not, in my opinion, a big deal.
The Kamloops club had it's last race before christmas yesterday. A fair entry, 22 cars. As usual the biggest entry was Pan cars, with 10 entries, followed by TC Mod with 5, and TC Stock with 4.
Doug Martin and R.J. Carroll divided up the honours in TC, with Doug taking TQ and winning in Mod (Losi XXX-S), and R.J. doing the same in Stock (TC3).
Pan Cars saw a great duel for TQ, with R.J. taking it from Jason Mardon by just 3 hundredths of a second ! To be fair, the gap should have been larger, as R.J. was on a pace of two laps faster than the eventual TQ befoe he became involved in someone else's accident and got knocked out of the race.
In the main R.J. moved out front, aided by a first corner melee that delayed several drivers. Ken Carroll moved into second, showing a welcome return to form. A recovering Jason Mardon almost caught him at the end, missing out by less than a tenth of a second (story of his day, really !)
Next Kamloops race is December 30th - an excuse to get out there with your new Christmas goodies ! Hope to see many of you there.
I noticed that ROAR had two questions on their recent voting papers that were very relevant to TC racing.
#1 asked whether foam tires should be allowed for electric TC's on carpet.
#2 asked whether Mod TC's should race for 5 minutes like most other classes, and whether motors should be limited to 10 turns. (Sneaky, putting two questions into one).
Both questions were answered very clearly, with big majorities in favour of each. Does this mean that these are now ROAR rules ? or are thet just recommendations for future rules ? (If they are modifications to the rules, I could't find an implementation date).
Just dropping by to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year....
I am looking forward to racing with many of you soon.
(Jesse... ??? you get my mails about the Bullet?)
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martin vannieuwenhuizen
xray 007
Associated T4
BRUSHED all the WAY!
"racing since the 80's an XRAY was something you needed when you broke a bone."
""Off topic
Wayne Vince wins Stock touring in Cleveland, Scott Smither 7th!
Scott Smither wins 1/12th stock, Wayne Vince 5th! ""
WAY to go guys!! What cars are you running these days?
__________________
martin vannieuwenhuizen
xray 007
Associated T4
BRUSHED all the WAY!
"racing since the 80's an XRAY was something you needed when you broke a bone."
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