So no one likes the idea of having the asphalt track, and rolling carpet over the asphalt for one week out of the month? Maybe have the track 2 weeks asphalt, and 2 weeks carpet? We would have the best of both worlds.
The only thing I dont know is the difference if having the carpet rolled on asphalt versus a couple layers of plywood sheets; like they do at major races like the IIC. Hmmmmmmm??
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Radio Control Car Action Contributing Editor - www.rccaraction.com
I race at - Hobbytown, DHW Raceway, OC Circuit, OCRC, ARC & WCRC Raceways.
My Painters: www.urbankolorlegends.com, www.cfxpaintworks.com
I just had to post, pretty comical all these guesses on the dimensions
of SoCal Onroad Track, it was 105 x 65 and thats the truth.
Happy Holidays!
Lana
I just had to post, pretty comical all these guesses on the dimensions
of SoCal Onroad Track, it was 105 x 65 and thats the truth.
Happy Holidays!
Lana
Thankyou Lana for clearing it up. I knew when it was posted that the track was 80' long, it wasn't. I remembered something about 100'.
You never did reply to my PM to you though!
Happy holidays to you, Jim, and your family, Paco.
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Jim S swindled me: www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=181126
I just had to post, pretty comical all these guesses on the dimensions
of SoCal Onroad Track, it was 105 x 65 and thats the truth.
Happy Holidays!
Lana
Lana?
Where have you and Jim been hiding and when are you gonna stop by
and see the place?
I just had to post, pretty comical all these guesses on the dimensions
of SoCal Onroad Track, it was 105 x 65 and thats the truth.
Happy Holidays!
Lana
Quote:
If I remember correctly, the old SoCal was more than likely at least 85 feet by almost 50... but remember that track had banking...
Add ten feet off of the racing line to the walls at the apexes of Turn 4 and then going into One... and there's your 105!
Damn, I'm good. Roflmao.
Lana, we miss you guys and the entire SoCal crew. Had many, many good times racing there; thanks for that.
So no one likes the idea of having the asphalt track, and rolling carpet over the asphalt for one week out of the month? Maybe have the track 2 weeks asphalt, and 2 weeks carpet? We would have the best of both worlds.
The only thing I dont know is the difference if having the carpet rolled on asphalt versus a couple layers of plywood sheets; like they do at major races like the IIC. Hmmmmmmm??
Every track I've run on that hasn't had the carpet glued down has always just felt inconsistent. The carpet ripples up in the corners once the bite comes up.. I really feel it would be best to go 100% in one direction or the other.
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Tamiya TRF - Peak Racing - BMI Racing - KO Propo - AKA - Parma - Manutech - Slapmaster Tools - Pound It Paints
Carpet or asphalt is great for me; I'll run either. i think there are pros and cons for both.
Pros for Asphalt-
-Most people in Southern California are used to running rubber tire on asphalt, so the transition to that is easy.
-Drift cars can run on it to increase cash flow and add new blood including the drifters who see racing and decide to give it a try.
-Low maintenance since it is indoors. Almost no wear and tear.
Pros for Carpet-
-Cheaper initial investment. Carpet is 20% or less to get going than asphalt.
-More classes. 1/12th pan car, 1/10th World GT, Foam sedan, Rubber sedan, etc.
-For its size, carpet is the fastest form of racing.
-No competition with carpet, there is no other carpet tracks in Southern California.
-Tire Wars is much lower. At Socal raceway, Sorex 36 with thin firm inserts and stiff white dish wheels were the hot ticket for most and were usually fastest the first run and dropped off by as much as .5 sec lap after that run. If someone ran a new set, everyone else had too also in order to be competitive. Rubber tires on most carpet tracks can be rerun without any loss in lap times (for the most part, depending on track).
-If carpet doesn't catch on, its much easier to toss and put in an asphalt track. Putting in an asphalt track first then deciding to go carpet would be very cost prohibitive.
-In other parts of the world, rubber tire sedan on carpet is common and it is also gaining momentum here. Which means many classes to pick from, and all with a good following worldwide.
Cons for asphalt-
-Expensive initial investment. Must be a certain grade of asphalt and needs to be laid down right.
-There are already asphalt tracks in So California and most have already tried it and made their opinion felt. There is nothing new to running asphalt, you either like it or hate it. Sure we need a consistent permanent track, but most are already familiar with it (this can be a pro too).
-Tire Wars. Rubber, inserts and wheels for one run= $50 (retail) a set - ouch. Foam tires are about $15 a pair and get better the more they are run. They will stay good until they chunk and even then it depends on the severity. At IIC Vegas Race I ran one set of Lilac tires on my 1/10th World GT car in practice, qualifying and mains- One Set! At a big race you would never see one set of tries run on asphalt for an entire event.
-Most serious 1/12th scale pan car and World GT 1/10th pan cars won't get run on asphalt. Yeah, we always hear about drivers who claim they are going to run them on asphalt, but they don't work as well and most guys simply won't do it. I have a 1/12th scale and I know plenty who also do, but our cars won't see asphalt. I know in some places there is a 1/12th asphalt class including Japan. This isn't Japan and foam on asphalt has never taken off without any significant following. Hard truth for some to swallow, but true. So basically you get touring cars and some smaller classes like mini cooper, etc. So unless you are willing to run these expensive labor intensive cars, you won't have much choices. Pan cars are just cheaper to run, but most racers have their own opinions about this.
-Drifters can run on it (see above). Yeah they are a separate group, but they don't mix well with race cars. They need different layouts, drive different and speeds are opposite. Kind of like throwing a crawler on the dirt race track. You can't run them together meaning they'll need there own track time and events. The fact is, drift tracks would never include a straight or infield as big as the ones needed for racing.
Cons for Carpet-
-Need a very flat surface and subfloor. I don't know how flat the current floor is, but 1/12th scales run 3mm ride height with no bumps on the track. Pan cars have almost no suspension and the surface needs to be like a pool table. Yes, you have to have a Subfloor of plywood. You simply CAN NOT put the carpet down on concrete or existing floor. There needs to be a barrier for the carpet and the carpet needs to be glued down on top insulating the carpet from variations in cold and heat. Tracks like Stockton tried to run rubber backed carpet on existing floor and it was really inconsistent and a nightmare for traction when it was cold. Without glue too the carpet develops folds and bumps which can disrupt car handling and worse cause tears and rips. So wood working is a must and unless the proper carpet is done, it will be halfass and discourage serious racers. Like a dirt track, unless its done at least at a certain level, the turn out is dependent on how well the track turns out.
-Carpet is very intimidating to those not experienced with it. A foam sedan or pan car is very sensitive and extremely fast, which means a new learning curve and parts breaking discouraging new drivers or experienced drivers too insecure to go back to square one in their learning to gain the experience to enjoy running foam on carpet.
-Carpet has more maintenance and upkeep and needs replacing every 5 years +/- a few years depending on wear and participation. Still cheaper than asphalt though.
-Less scale realism. Let's face it, a lot of people like the looks of a scale rc car going around the track and that is what drew some of us to the hobby in the first place. Foam tires, carpet, pan cars, etc. are very far away from their 1:1 real life cars racing.
Carpet or asphalt is great for me; I'll run either. i think there are pros and cons for both.
Pros for Asphalt-
-Most people in Southern California are used to running rubber tire on asphalt, so the transition to that is easy.
-Drift cars can run on it to increase cash flow and add new blood including the drifters who see racing and decide to give it a try.
-Low maintenance since it is indoors. Almost no wear and tear.
Pros for Carpet-
-Cheaper initial investment. Carpet is 20% or less to get going than asphalt.
-More classes. 1/12th pan car, 1/10th World GT, Foam sedan, Rubber sedan, etc.
-For its size, carpet is the fastest form of racing.
-No competition with carpet, there is no other carpet tracks in Southern California.
-Tire Wars is much lower. At Socal raceway, Sorex 36 with thin firm inserts and still white dish wheels were the hot ticket for most and were usually fastest the first run and dropped off by as much as .5 sec lap after that run. If someone ran a new set, everyone else had too also in order to be competitive. Rubber tires on most carpet tracks can be rerun without any loss in lap times (for the most part, depending on track).
-If carpet doesn't catch on, its much easier to toss and put in an asphalt track. Putting in an asphalt track first then deciding to go carpet would be very cost prohibitive.
-In other parts of the world, rubber tire sedan on carpet is common and it is also gaining momentum here. Which means many classes to pick from, and all with a good following worldwide.
Cons for asphalt-
-Expensive initial investment. Must be a certain grade of asphalt and needs to be laid down right.
-There are already asphalt tracks in So California and most have already tried it and made their opinion felt. There is nothing new to running asphalt, you either like it or hate it. Sure we need a consistent permanent track, but most are already familiar with it (this can be a pro too).
-Tire Wars. Rubber, inserts and wheels for one run= $50 (retail) a set - ouch. Foam tires are about $15 a pair and get better the more they are run. They will stay good until they chunk and even then it depends on the severity. At IIC Vegas Race I ran one set of Lilac tires on my 1/10th World GT car in practice, qualifying and mains- One Set! At a big race you would never see one set of tries run on asphalt for an entire event.
-Most serious 1/12th scale pan car and World GT 1/10th pan cars won't get run on asphalt. Yeah, we always hear about drivers who claim they are going to run them on asphalt, but they don't work as well and most guys simply won't do it. I have a 1/12th scale and I know plenty who also do, but our cars won't see asphalt. I know in some places there is a 1/12th asphalt class including Japan. This isn't Japan and foam on asphalt has never taken off without any significant following. Hard truth for some to swallow, but true. So basically you get touring cars and some smaller classes like mini cooper, etc. So unless you are willing to run these expensive labor intensive cars, you won't have much choices. Pan cars are just cheaper to run, but most racers have their own opinions about this.
-Drifters can run on it (see above). Yeah they are a separate group, but they don't mix well with race cars. They need different layouts, drive different and speeds are opposite. Kind of like throwing a crawler on the dirt race track. You can't run them together meaning they'll need there own track time and events.
Cons for Carpet-
-Need a very flat surface and subfloor. I don't know how flat the current floor is, but 1/12th scales run 3mm ride height with no bumps on the track. Pan cars have almost no suspension and the surface needs to be like a pool table. Yes, you have to have a Subfloor of plywood. You simply CAN NOT put the carpet down on concrete or existing floor. There needs to be a barrier for the carpet and the carpet needs to be glued down on top insulating the carpet from variations in cold and heat. Tracks like Stockton tried to run rubber backed carpet on existing floor and it was really inconsistent and a nightmare for traction when it was cold. Without glue too the carpet develops folds and bumps which can disrupt car handling and worse cause tears and rips. So wood working is a must and unless the proper carpet is done, it will be halfass and discourage serious racers. Like a dirt track, unless its done at least at a certain level, the turn out is dependent on how well the track turns out.
-Carpet is very intimidating to those not experienced with it. A foam sedan or pan car is very sensitive and extremely fast, which means a new learning curve and parts breaking discouraging new drivers.
-Carpet has more maintenance and upkeep and needs replacing every 5 years +/- a few years depending on wear and participation. Still cheaper than asphalt though.
-Less scale realism. Let's face it, a lot of people like the looks of a scale rc car going around the track and that is what drew some of us to the hobby in the first place. Foam tires, carpet, pan cars, etc. are very far away from their 1:1 real life cars racing.
My 2 cents. Some things to think about.
I'll submit my vote, and its for a carpet track.
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Radio Control Car Action Contributing Editor - www.rccaraction.com
I race at - Hobbytown, DHW Raceway, OC Circuit, OCRC, ARC & WCRC Raceways.
My Painters: www.urbankolorlegends.com, www.cfxpaintworks.com
Randy is right one or the other and I feel you will draw more entries with aspahlt. There are no descent size indoor on road asphalt tracks in so cal I think you will capture the market for on road in socal if you go with asphalt and like some one said earlier drift and oval will come once they find out that you can count on
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If people here in the U.S. call there nice plates China what do people in China call there nice plates.
carpet could be fun.... but teh track needs to be built right. you need a subfloor and the decking needs to be biscuited and or dog boned. I work with commercial millwork companies so i could def lend a hand getting 3/4" cdx or particle board pre dog boned so we could come out and level all teh sheets perfectly on 2x4"s. We would also need some joint filler and abunch of orbital sanders.
Laying down carpet temporarily isn't going to work because a lot of racers are going to be very particular aboout the grip. They would almost prefer to have low grip asphalt over having an unpredictable grip carpet setup that is floating and slidnig because it isn't anchored correctly.
As for classes. All I have to say is push rcgt hard if you do carpet. That has the opportunity to be a great series using teh belted pro compound xpattern tire. competition with teh 17.5 indoors and forcing everyone to run a spec tire would be epicly fun.
good luck.
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"I personally do not believe in luck. I believe luck is just an excuse for people that have failed in their mission to accomplish something." Allen McNish
carpet could be fun.... but teh track needs to be built right. you need a subfloor and the decking needs to be biscuited and or dog boned. I work with commercial millwork companies so i could def lend a hand getting 3/4" cdx or particle board pre dog boned so we could come out and level all teh sheets perfectly on 2x4"s. We would also need some joint filler and abunch of orbital sanders.
Laying down carpet temporarily isn't going to work because a lot of racers are going to be very particular aboout the grip. They would almost prefer to have low grip asphalt over having an unpredictable grip carpet setup that is floating and slidnig because it isn't anchored correctly.
As for classes. All I have to say is push rcgt hard if you do carpet. That has the opportunity to be a great series using teh belted pro compound xpattern tire. competition with teh 17.5 indoors and forcing everyone to run a spec tire would be epicly fun.
So far, Karl has the most productive post in here.
I can only disagree with a couple of the cons about carpet... I understand how it would be intimidating to go out with a foam sedan or 1/12 for the first time, it's HARD to get them dialed enough to where you're not breaking parts often. However you can go out with your rubber tire car straight from BCR and wouldn't be too far off on setup, definately close enough to race with.
The other is the scale realism, very true for 1/12, but I have a feeling that most people are still going to run sedans, so it's pretty much the same look.
I've always been all about asphalt, but that's because I've never had a top level carpet track nearby to practice on. We all know how to drive on asphalt, why not get better on carpet now?
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Tamiya TRF - Peak Racing - BMI Racing - KO Propo - AKA - Parma - Manutech - Slapmaster Tools - Pound It Paints
Well I don't really care about the whole scale realism thing. I've never been one to go out of my way to run side view mirrors or put a driver in the cockpit, but when I was talking to others about carpet, these kind of concerns came up and I'm sure there are others out there who feel the same. I personally love running foam sedan, but I've heard a few people who think running carpet takes away from the realism approach to the hobby. It has to do with mainly the carpet being so alien 'ish, not like rubber on good 'ol asphalt. Again, I could care less, I just think its fun. If dish wheels perform and a non-scale body works on my cars, I'll run them. If we could scale down a v-6 with a turbo charger on it, I'd think about scale, but batteries and brushless means rc and I'm in to that. lol
Personally, I'm a little more partial to carpet since I have places to run asphalt and rubber tire on carpet isn't that much different if that's what you like to drive. To me, carpet is pure A.D.D. driving- pull the trigger and hold on, its fast and white knuckle. That's perfect for me.
I thought I would just list a number of concerns from both sides for discussion and it looks like it may work. Either way, I'm there.
I think the one thing that will put any "to scale" lover to rest would be reminding them that the cars are going 40mph down the straight... Scale that up and you've got 400mph
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Tamiya TRF - Peak Racing - BMI Racing - KO Propo - AKA - Parma - Manutech - Slapmaster Tools - Pound It Paints
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