Ask Ray Munday - JConcepts, Reedy, Associated Aussie Support Thread
#31
RPM spring collar #70322 or Traxxas version #3768 (use either or)
TLR 12m spring cups #5095
GHEA Spring Collars - GHEA2070
For the B4.1 springs - I have only tried the Losi BB springs.
I like the orange front / white rear for our tracks in Melbourne. These are simialr rates to the brown / green AE springs, but become more progressive as they are compressed.
For gripper tracks, run silver front / yellow rear.
For very low traction, try the red fronts with the white rears.
I havent tried the Kyosho BB springs yet (too expensive for me!!).
For the B44.1, I have been happy with Green front / White rear Losi BB. For grippier tracks, try blue front / yellow rear.
Ray
#32
If I may...i have been using Team Durango big bore springs on my T4.1 for some time now, and the TD lower cup and collar also! The only mod necessary was to 'pack' the lower cup by applying tape to the ball end to increae its diameter...the TD ball ends are much heavier duty. A simple and inexpensive fit, and i believe the springs, collars and cups would be among the cheapest to purchase of all parts listed.
FYI, Dark blue front spring and Light blue rear are equivalent approxomately to the AE blue front and green rear. On a B4.1, i would go for Black front and L/BLue rear.
Good luck!!
Scotty G.
#34
Tech Regular
iTrader: (6)
I use the Losi 22 lower cups and the Traxxas upper spring collars. RPM collars aso fit (both of these slip over the standard AE retainer). For a bit of extra bling, use the Ghea collars.
RPM spring collar #70322 or Traxxas version #3768 (use either or)
TLR 12m spring cups #5095
GHEA Spring Collars - GHEA2070
For the B4.1 springs - I have only tried the Losi BB springs.
I like the orange front / white rear for our tracks in Melbourne. These are simialr rates to the brown / green AE springs, but become more progressive as they are compressed.
For gripper tracks, run silver front / yellow rear.
For very low traction, try the red fronts with the white rears.
I havent tried the Kyosho BB springs yet (too expensive for me!!).
For the B44.1, I have been happy with Green front / White rear Losi BB. For grippier tracks, try blue front / yellow rear.
Ray
RPM spring collar #70322 or Traxxas version #3768 (use either or)
TLR 12m spring cups #5095
GHEA Spring Collars - GHEA2070
For the B4.1 springs - I have only tried the Losi BB springs.
I like the orange front / white rear for our tracks in Melbourne. These are simialr rates to the brown / green AE springs, but become more progressive as they are compressed.
For gripper tracks, run silver front / yellow rear.
For very low traction, try the red fronts with the white rears.
I havent tried the Kyosho BB springs yet (too expensive for me!!).
For the B44.1, I have been happy with Green front / White rear Losi BB. For grippier tracks, try blue front / yellow rear.
Ray
For the B4.1, are yhou talking about these springs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOSA5447-Los...item35bb5627cc
Also Is there a Basic FDR for 540 for Know and Keilor?
I have been told 5.8 and others say 6.4.
To me that's something like, 72 spur-31 pinion for a TA B4.1
Or have I missed something.
Thank you
#35
Hi Ray
For the B4.1, are yhou talking about these springs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOSA5447-Los...item35bb5627cc
Also Is there a Basic FDR for 540 for Know and Keilor?
I have been told 5.8 and others say 6.4.
To me that's something like, 72 spur-31 pinion for a TA B4.1
Or have I missed something.
Thank you
For the B4.1, are yhou talking about these springs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOSA5447-Los...item35bb5627cc
Also Is there a Basic FDR for 540 for Know and Keilor?
I have been told 5.8 and others say 6.4.
To me that's something like, 72 spur-31 pinion for a TA B4.1
Or have I missed something.
Thank you
The ones we are using the AE cars are from the 22 (big bore shocks for a 10th scale buggy).
TLR Ft 12mm spring , silver #5174
TLR Frt 12mm spring , orange #5173
TLR Frt 12mm spring , red #5172
TLR Rear 12mm spring , white#5166
TLR Rear 12mm spring , yellow #5167
The correct FDR will depend on a few things including ambient temp, track condition (slippery / grippy / heavy), driving style, battery condition etc. Its best to start on the conservative side (6.4) and go up a pinion at a time from there while checking motor temps after each run.
Yes, you will need a 72 tooth spur and pinions in the 29-32 tooth range for the B4.1.
Regards
Ray
Last edited by ray_munday; 04-16-2012 at 01:19 AM.
#37
Tech Elite
iTrader: (141)
toe in
Ray, got a setup question for ya, not entirely just related to associated cars, but overall cars in general.
running a car of total 3.5° rear toe-in for example.
What is the difference between running;
rear pivot block of 2.5°, and +1° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.0°, and +0.5° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.5°, and 0° rear hub
Thanks in advance
running a car of total 3.5° rear toe-in for example.
What is the difference between running;
rear pivot block of 2.5°, and +1° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.0°, and +0.5° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.5°, and 0° rear hub
Thanks in advance
#38
Hey Alan,
Good question. It's not something I've played with lately, but ill add it to my next test to re confirm.
Back in the mid/late 90s, cars started switching from outboard toe to inboard toe. The result is similar to adding anti squat - a little more steering off power but better forward traction on power and a bit more on power steering.
Like adding antisquat, it works well on smoother tracks but can hurt traction accelerating in bumps.
The difference in 0.5 deg increments may be small but ill give it a test at Knox next time I'm there.
Hope this helps
Ray
Good question. It's not something I've played with lately, but ill add it to my next test to re confirm.
Back in the mid/late 90s, cars started switching from outboard toe to inboard toe. The result is similar to adding anti squat - a little more steering off power but better forward traction on power and a bit more on power steering.
Like adding antisquat, it works well on smoother tracks but can hurt traction accelerating in bumps.
The difference in 0.5 deg increments may be small but ill give it a test at Knox next time I'm there.
Hope this helps
Ray
Ray, got a setup question for ya, not entirely just related to associated cars, but overall cars in general.
running a car of total 3.5° rear toe-in for example.
What is the difference between running;
rear pivot block of 2.5°, and +1° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.0°, and +0.5° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.5°, and 0° rear hub
Thanks in advance
running a car of total 3.5° rear toe-in for example.
What is the difference between running;
rear pivot block of 2.5°, and +1° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.0°, and +0.5° rear hub
v's
rear pivot block of 3.5°, and 0° rear hub
Thanks in advance
#39
Tech Elite
iTrader: (17)
Hiya Ray,
With so many people switching to big bore springs for alot of the vehicles, there seems to be some confusion as to Spring rates, IE, manafactures listed spring rates as opposed to actual tested spring rates, some seem very different.
Point in case :
When trying find a similar spring rate to AE Silver 2.10 LB IN (example only), should you look a listed Rate or Measured rate? There is soo much available info on so many different types of springs its hard to come to a reasonable conclusion. Perhaps manafacturers listings are arbitury only, and only relevant within the same brand?
With so many people switching to big bore springs for alot of the vehicles, there seems to be some confusion as to Spring rates, IE, manafactures listed spring rates as opposed to actual tested spring rates, some seem very different.
Point in case :
When trying find a similar spring rate to AE Silver 2.10 LB IN (example only), should you look a listed Rate or Measured rate? There is soo much available info on so many different types of springs its hard to come to a reasonable conclusion. Perhaps manafacturers listings are arbitury only, and only relevant within the same brand?
#40
Hey John,
the simple answer is: you can not go off the rates alone when comparing springs.
Ive been lucky enough to have Paul (goBezerk) test up many springs for me and from this we can calculate the spring rate as the spring progresses. Some springs are linear (spring rate stays constant), while for others they are progressive (the spring rate increases the more the spring is compressed).
As an example, the AE brown front spring is quite linear and has a quoted rate of 2.9. The Losi BB Orange spring has a quoted rate of 2.8, but is stiffer than the AE brown from the start and continues to become stiffer as it is compressed. The Losi red BB spring has a quoted rate of 2.5 and is initially softer than the AE brown, but becomes a similar stiffness as it is compressed.
The Losi white rear spring has a quoted rate of 1.8, but starts off slightly stiffer than the AE green (1.9 rate) and becomes firmer throughout the stroke where the green spring is basically linear.
In general, what I have seen is that the BB springs tend to be more progressive (front and rear). This is probably due to the fact that a larger spring needs less coils / thicker wire to have the same rate as a smaller spring, and less coils / thicker wire tend to make coil springs become more progressive as they are compressed. The other advantage of the BB springs is that they have less 'buckling' than a smaller spring, which leads to less rubbing on the shock body but also less side loads on the damper shaft (ie less friction). And most importantly, they look better!
I havent tested the Kyosho BB springs but if anyone can lend me some, we can post up the results here as well.
Ive read that the new AVID BB springs will come with a rate measurement included. Ill be interested to see if it is just one number or includes the progression of the rate.
Hope this helps!
Ray
the simple answer is: you can not go off the rates alone when comparing springs.
Ive been lucky enough to have Paul (goBezerk) test up many springs for me and from this we can calculate the spring rate as the spring progresses. Some springs are linear (spring rate stays constant), while for others they are progressive (the spring rate increases the more the spring is compressed).
As an example, the AE brown front spring is quite linear and has a quoted rate of 2.9. The Losi BB Orange spring has a quoted rate of 2.8, but is stiffer than the AE brown from the start and continues to become stiffer as it is compressed. The Losi red BB spring has a quoted rate of 2.5 and is initially softer than the AE brown, but becomes a similar stiffness as it is compressed.
The Losi white rear spring has a quoted rate of 1.8, but starts off slightly stiffer than the AE green (1.9 rate) and becomes firmer throughout the stroke where the green spring is basically linear.
In general, what I have seen is that the BB springs tend to be more progressive (front and rear). This is probably due to the fact that a larger spring needs less coils / thicker wire to have the same rate as a smaller spring, and less coils / thicker wire tend to make coil springs become more progressive as they are compressed. The other advantage of the BB springs is that they have less 'buckling' than a smaller spring, which leads to less rubbing on the shock body but also less side loads on the damper shaft (ie less friction). And most importantly, they look better!
I havent tested the Kyosho BB springs but if anyone can lend me some, we can post up the results here as well.
Ive read that the new AVID BB springs will come with a rate measurement included. Ill be interested to see if it is just one number or includes the progression of the rate.
Hope this helps!
Ray
Hiya Ray,
With so many people switching to big bore springs for alot of the vehicles, there seems to be some confusion as to Spring rates, IE, manafactures listed spring rates as opposed to actual tested spring rates, some seem very different.
Point in case :
When trying find a similar spring rate to AE Silver 2.10 LB IN (example only), should you look a listed Rate or Measured rate? There is soo much available info on so many different types of springs its hard to come to a reasonable conclusion. Perhaps manafacturers listings are arbitury only, and only relevant within the same brand?
With so many people switching to big bore springs for alot of the vehicles, there seems to be some confusion as to Spring rates, IE, manafactures listed spring rates as opposed to actual tested spring rates, some seem very different.
Point in case :
When trying find a similar spring rate to AE Silver 2.10 LB IN (example only), should you look a listed Rate or Measured rate? There is soo much available info on so many different types of springs its hard to come to a reasonable conclusion. Perhaps manafacturers listings are arbitury only, and only relevant within the same brand?
#41
Hey Ray,
Looking to pick up a Novak Havoc Pro SC/Ballistic Brushless Sys 8.5T to put in my b4.1. You recommended 8.125 FDR on your motor chart, would a 75/24 spur /pinion achieve this? Only new to rc and trying to get my head around these FDR calculations.
Thanks.
Looking to pick up a Novak Havoc Pro SC/Ballistic Brushless Sys 8.5T to put in my b4.1. You recommended 8.125 FDR on your motor chart, would a 75/24 spur /pinion achieve this? Only new to rc and trying to get my head around these FDR calculations.
Thanks.
#42
welcome to the world of RC! The B4.1 / Novak combo is a great place to start. To be honest, if you are just starting out an 8.5 is a LOT of motor and may cause more frustration than fun. 17.5T is probably a better choice so you can start in the stock class, or if you want a bit more speed, a 13.5T or 10.5T will be a much nicer motor to drive (less tyre wear, less wheelspin, still able to clear the jumps at most tracks). There are very few people in the country who can get faster lap times with an 8.5T compared to a 10.5T on an average track.
To answer your question: 24 pinion / 75 spur will achieve the 8.125:1 FDR.
For a 10.5T, I suggest 27 pinion / 72 spur.
Good luck and have fun!
Ray
PS where will you be racing?
#43
Thanks Ray,
I have been tossing up between the 8.5 and the 10.5, I will be racing at Knox and Keilor. I know consistency is the name of the game and 17.5 would be a good place to learn that, but no one in that class were jumping the triple at Knox on the weekend and that for me is so far the most enjoyable part of rc
My lap times will come down eventually and consistency will come with practice but at the moment its all about fun.
P.S on your set up sheet it says to add 40g ballast, where do I put it?
I have been tossing up between the 8.5 and the 10.5, I will be racing at Knox and Keilor. I know consistency is the name of the game and 17.5 would be a good place to learn that, but no one in that class were jumping the triple at Knox on the weekend and that for me is so far the most enjoyable part of rc
My lap times will come down eventually and consistency will come with practice but at the moment its all about fun.
P.S on your set up sheet it says to add 40g ballast, where do I put it?
#44
Thanks Ray,
I have been tossing up between the 8.5 and the 10.5, I will be racing at Knox and Keilor. I know consistency is the name of the game and 17.5 would be a good place to learn that, but no one in that class were jumping the triple at Knox on the weekend and that for me is so far the most enjoyable part of rc
My lap times will come down eventually and consistency will come with practice but at the moment its all about fun.
P.S on your set up sheet it says to add 40g ballast, where do I put it?
I have been tossing up between the 8.5 and the 10.5, I will be racing at Knox and Keilor. I know consistency is the name of the game and 17.5 would be a good place to learn that, but no one in that class were jumping the triple at Knox on the weekend and that for me is so far the most enjoyable part of rc
My lap times will come down eventually and consistency will come with practice but at the moment its all about fun.
P.S on your set up sheet it says to add 40g ballast, where do I put it?
The 40g ballast was cut out of lead flashing and sat under the battery. My older batteries were a bit lighter. The latest ones I am running (IB 6200) are 310g so I dont run any ballast under them.
Ray
Last edited by ray_munday; 04-17-2012 at 01:22 PM.
#45
Thanks Ray, your advice is invaluable to an RC newbie like myself