AARCMCC Rule Change Submission- January 2012
01-29-2012, 03:40 PM
#16
Tech Regular
really cant see what the difference is between a 12 car final and 15 car final apart from its a extra 3 cars for the nationals, pretty sure femcas run 15 car finals (apart from last year). To me i see it that anyone who makes the A final for the nationals whether its a 12 car final or 15 car final, they will either have a 1 in 12 chance to win or 1 in 15 chance to win the National Title and at the end of the day no matter how many cars are in the main, to win it you need to first finish the final and be in front of the pack
01-29-2012, 03:49 PM
#17
Currently only a 10 & 12 Car Final scenario is detailed in the rules.
If the new rule was to be accepted and a Nationals hosting facility is deemed suitable, it can hold a 15 Car Final.
01-29-2012, 04:09 PM
#19
More crashes, more traffic, more backmarkers, more kaos, Yeh its gonna be awesome I can't wait.......
01-29-2012, 06:20 PM
#20
Tech Master
01-29-2012, 06:36 PM
#21
guys.
you may not like it.. i understand some people will always dislike a new rule proposal for there own reason..
but if a club makes genuine proposal to us, then we have to forward it on.
i think the majority will like the ideah.. i think the normal top ten drivers like matty and i wont.
but thats just the point.. we work with a majority.
PS: 15 worked ok at the aka race... i didnt really notice much difference between that and a 10 car main.
you may not like it.. i understand some people will always dislike a new rule proposal for there own reason..
but if a club makes genuine proposal to us, then we have to forward it on.
i think the majority will like the ideah.. i think the normal top ten drivers like matty and i wont.
but thats just the point.. we work with a majority.
PS: 15 worked ok at the aka race... i didnt really notice much difference between that and a 10 car main.
01-29-2012, 06:37 PM
#22
As far as I can tell, this Rule Change only adds the possibility of being able to hold a 15 car Final.
Currently only a 10 & 12 Car Final scenario is detailed in the rules.
If the new rule was to be accepted and a Nationals hosting facility is deemed suitable, it can hold a 15 Car Final.
Currently only a 10 & 12 Car Final scenario is detailed in the rules.
If the new rule was to be accepted and a Nationals hosting facility is deemed suitable, it can hold a 15 Car Final.
Is the proposal to (A) allow the option of 10, 12 or 15 car finals; or (B) specify 15 car finals only?
____________
I can't imagine that we are too often going to find a National Championship being held by a club that hasn't previously hosted a State Championship. To run a State Championship at the moment you must have facilities for 15 cars. So concerns over facilities would have to apply to State Championships too, if you have them.
____________
I imagine most clubs are going to hold off on submitting their vote until after the Tasmanian State Championships, just to get reports back from how well 15 car finals worked there.
01-29-2012, 06:57 PM
#23
Tech Master
Could we have that clarified please?
Is the proposal to (A) allow the option of 10, 12 or 15 car finals; or (B) specify 15 car finals only?
____________
I can't imagine that we are too often going to find a National Championship being held by a club that hasn't previously hosted a State Championship. To run a State Championship at the moment you must have facilities for 15 cars. So concerns over facilities would have to apply to State Championships too, if you have them.
____________
I imagine most clubs are going to hold off on submitting their vote until after the Tasmanian State Championships, just to get reports back from how well 15 car finals worked there.
Is the proposal to (A) allow the option of 10, 12 or 15 car finals; or (B) specify 15 car finals only?
____________
I can't imagine that we are too often going to find a National Championship being held by a club that hasn't previously hosted a State Championship. To run a State Championship at the moment you must have facilities for 15 cars. So concerns over facilities would have to apply to State Championships too, if you have them.
____________
I imagine most clubs are going to hold off on submitting their vote until after the Tasmanian State Championships, just to get reports back from how well 15 car finals worked there.
01-31-2012, 03:32 AM
#24
Tech Fanatic
If they also want 15 cars in the quali. then a reseed after practice or after the second quali. is a must. With 15 cars On the track you need 90% of the driver on the same lap otherwise kaos and unhappy people on the rostrum will be a bad result for the next big event. Make it fair and they will come.
02-08-2012, 05:43 PM
#25
I am in a bit of bind as to if I agree with you there Marco, whilst I understand that having such a large mixture of skill levels can cause trouble, on the same token, most "fast" folk will work they're way around regardless and those in the middle pack will impove their passing skills, whilst those that are the back markers will learn to be faster by watching the fast guys lines and approaches. These are often hard to be learnt purely through watching from the side of the track. Its really a catch 22, it can cause havok one way and it can stunt the growth of the sport the other way. Is this not why we have bump up finals, and why qualifying will always work out in the wash. One fast guy may have had his qualifyling impacted at one race meet but another may be effected at another meet thus the impact at a points level is minimal. Lets face it, the fast guys will always be fast and the rest of us can aspire to develop their pace.
Back to topic, I think that 15 car finals is a good thing for everyone, lets face it, this hobby / sport of ours can benefit from growth and more growth can happen if finals are more spectacular as people are attracted to the spectacular, and 15 car finals will improve the time constraint issues we have. I hope that LCRCMCC votes yes to this.
Back to topic, I think that 15 car finals is a good thing for everyone, lets face it, this hobby / sport of ours can benefit from growth and more growth can happen if finals are more spectacular as people are attracted to the spectacular, and 15 car finals will improve the time constraint issues we have. I hope that LCRCMCC votes yes to this.
02-13-2012, 03:50 AM
#26
Thought it might be timely to offer a few thoughts on 15 car finals after the Tasmanian Championship on the weekend.
I can only comment from the perspective of a competitor and observer, as I wasn't involved in the organisation of the event. And, it has to be said, it was a small event anyway, so the time saving factor with 15 car finals was not an issue.
In Tassie, the driver's stand is 40 feet long, so there was plenty of room on the stand for 15 drivers. The club ran a very clear priority choice system for the A finals so that higher qualifiers had choice of standing position. That's potentially important and good practice (it might be a standard practice, I'm not sure).
The pit lane was crowded, but from what I could tell everything worked ok. Perhaps a pit lane observer/steward to make sure that pit crew are standing back from the wall when not pitting their own driver to make sure there was plenty of space in the lane. Certainly I didn't have any trouble during pit stops, and in any case, there's never going to be 15 cars in pit lane making pit stops at the same moment anyway.
The track (approx 40 seconds) was definitely of an appropriate size and standard for the larger field.
As a driver, the major challenge was traffic. One we were into the race faster cars were constantly dealing with traffic, and those further back in the field were constantly being lapped. That made the capacity to deal with traffic a particularly important skill that would impact on the overall result.
I, for instance, was too impatient on a number of occasions during the buggy final, and instead of losing a couple of tenths, made mistakes trying to get past without waiting for the right moment, and cost myself a lot of time. That's my fault, and my problem and not by any means a reason not to endorse 15 cars - just making the point that it does change the context of the race, and raise the relative importance of dealing with traffic if you want to win the final.
By contrast, the Truck final had only 11 trucks, and it felt like there was a lot more time and space on the race track.
The bonus of course is that an extra 3-5 drivers got to race in the A final, gain that experience, and have the opportunity to compete with and against the fastest guys. I reckon that's gold in terms of developing drivers who are on the fringe of A final pace. There's nothing like the experience of running those long/big finals.
On the whole having run on the weekend under the state title version of the 15 car format, I'm in favour of the 15 car nats proposal. Sure there are consequences, the main one being traffic, but provided their is clear and effective race direction and calling, that's a manageable issue.
Happy to answer questions if I can.
One otherthing I might say that doesn't impact on this proposal, is that the new system of top 10 going direct to the A final for state titles has an interesting side effect. Under the old system the A finalists had all just had a semi final to get into "race mode". Under the new arrangement, if you're in the top 10, the very first time you're on track and actually racing is when the A final starts. It's not a bad thing (the same occurs in EP racing everywhere, and at most club events every weekend), but it was different lining up for the A main without that semi final under the belt. I did wonder whether there might be some value in running a proper race start at the beginning of the "top 10 practice session" on sunday morning - to give people an opportunity to get a look at race starting procedure and hopefully a cleaner start to the actual race. Just a thought.
cheers
scott
I can only comment from the perspective of a competitor and observer, as I wasn't involved in the organisation of the event. And, it has to be said, it was a small event anyway, so the time saving factor with 15 car finals was not an issue.
In Tassie, the driver's stand is 40 feet long, so there was plenty of room on the stand for 15 drivers. The club ran a very clear priority choice system for the A finals so that higher qualifiers had choice of standing position. That's potentially important and good practice (it might be a standard practice, I'm not sure).
The pit lane was crowded, but from what I could tell everything worked ok. Perhaps a pit lane observer/steward to make sure that pit crew are standing back from the wall when not pitting their own driver to make sure there was plenty of space in the lane. Certainly I didn't have any trouble during pit stops, and in any case, there's never going to be 15 cars in pit lane making pit stops at the same moment anyway.
The track (approx 40 seconds) was definitely of an appropriate size and standard for the larger field.
As a driver, the major challenge was traffic. One we were into the race faster cars were constantly dealing with traffic, and those further back in the field were constantly being lapped. That made the capacity to deal with traffic a particularly important skill that would impact on the overall result.
I, for instance, was too impatient on a number of occasions during the buggy final, and instead of losing a couple of tenths, made mistakes trying to get past without waiting for the right moment, and cost myself a lot of time. That's my fault, and my problem and not by any means a reason not to endorse 15 cars - just making the point that it does change the context of the race, and raise the relative importance of dealing with traffic if you want to win the final.
By contrast, the Truck final had only 11 trucks, and it felt like there was a lot more time and space on the race track.
The bonus of course is that an extra 3-5 drivers got to race in the A final, gain that experience, and have the opportunity to compete with and against the fastest guys. I reckon that's gold in terms of developing drivers who are on the fringe of A final pace. There's nothing like the experience of running those long/big finals.
On the whole having run on the weekend under the state title version of the 15 car format, I'm in favour of the 15 car nats proposal. Sure there are consequences, the main one being traffic, but provided their is clear and effective race direction and calling, that's a manageable issue.
Happy to answer questions if I can.
One otherthing I might say that doesn't impact on this proposal, is that the new system of top 10 going direct to the A final for state titles has an interesting side effect. Under the old system the A finalists had all just had a semi final to get into "race mode". Under the new arrangement, if you're in the top 10, the very first time you're on track and actually racing is when the A final starts. It's not a bad thing (the same occurs in EP racing everywhere, and at most club events every weekend), but it was different lining up for the A main without that semi final under the belt. I did wonder whether there might be some value in running a proper race start at the beginning of the "top 10 practice session" on sunday morning - to give people an opportunity to get a look at race starting procedure and hopefully a cleaner start to the actual race. Just a thought.
cheers
scott
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