AARCMCC I.C. Off-Road Rule Proposal
10-12-2011, 04:41 PM
#46
Tech Master
You don't want to do that. It's the equivalent of saying every Australian should get a vote on every piece of legislation that goes before parliament, regardless of how much research and thinking they may have done on the proposal.
What you desperately want to avoid is people who have been a member of a club for 5 minutes texting their vote in like they are voting for their favourite act on The X Factor.
The direction of the sport and its rules cannot be a popularity contest. What is required are careful considered decisions from responsible people.
The situation in EP works reasonably well -- each club gets a vote. The members of the clubs elect their officials who are generally the ones who make the call on which way to vote. Those are the people club members trust with the running of their clubs, and those are the people who are responsible enough to do the proper research and thinking on each proposal.
What you desperately want to avoid is people who have been a member of a club for 5 minutes texting their vote in like they are voting for their favourite act on The X Factor.
The direction of the sport and its rules cannot be a popularity contest. What is required are careful considered decisions from responsible people.
The situation in EP works reasonably well -- each club gets a vote. The members of the clubs elect their officials who are generally the ones who make the call on which way to vote. Those are the people club members trust with the running of their clubs, and those are the people who are responsible enough to do the proper research and thinking on each proposal.
Furthermore some peolpe making these decisions haven't been to a big event, whereas a club member may have been to many of them and could rightly agrue that they would be able to make a more educated decision.
Maybe we could add that before you can vote you have to attend 1 or 2 sanctioned events?
Cheers
Mark
10-12-2011, 04:58 PM
#47
Thats' pretty much how it is now for GP off road. Trouble is a lot of members complain that the never hear about votes such as this due to the committees making decisions themselves.
Furthermore some peolpe making these decisions haven't been to a big event, whereas a club member may have been to many of them and could rightly agrue that they would be able to make a more educated decision.
Maybe we could add that before you can vote you have to attend 1 or 2 sanctioned events?
Cheers
Mark
Furthermore some peolpe making these decisions haven't been to a big event, whereas a club member may have been to many of them and could rightly agrue that they would be able to make a more educated decision.
Maybe we could add that before you can vote you have to attend 1 or 2 sanctioned events?
Cheers
Mark
A recent proposal we got from the EP ONR section of AARCMCC was on a weight change for TCs. 90% of people's opinions were based almost solely on the weight of their own car. The remaining 10% had the bigger picture in mind, and articulated their view based on that. Those are the ones we paid most attention to in formulating our position. If we'd given everyone a vote though, the result would simply have been split based on which side of the proposed weight limit the TC each member owned was on.
10-12-2011, 06:24 PM
#48
Tech Fanatic
With the A,B,C finals if, for example, we got 7 lower buggy final (A,B,C,D,E,F,G) and just 3 truggy final (A,B,C), we can put the B and C truggy between the F_G and E_F buggy. In the new proposal i can not find the rule that explain what is going to happen if someone bump up from the E to the D buggy final when there are not any truggy left to put between the to buggy final.
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
There will be a set of time between the two final ?.
"Race organiser's discretion" is not an answer because we need a CLEAR rule that has to be followed wherever we go and from every "Race organiser".
Thank you
if we got the same drivers number (12 or 15) in both final (A,B,C or Xmas), the differents between the two will be one semi because on the A,B,C the otherone is already in the main (20 mins. saved)
You say that we need a gap, also because the bump up cars have to be scrutinyed to be able to race the next final, so if you look my example we are going to have 60+ mins. of gap without any race.
Because on the Xmas final there isn t any gap(race on the track at any time) why the A,B,C final is faster than Xmas final if both system got 15 driver on the rostrum?
Thank you
10-12-2011, 07:01 PM
#49
Why do people "have" to travel to 4 events?
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
the races are 7 mins so as to fit into a 3 day sheduale... not so superstars can out sprint anyone.. as Most "superstars normally still do well over 10 mins"
and the superstars that cannot keep their car intact for longer than 15mins will deny someone a spot in the Amain
Un the USA all of there nationals and major event are run the same as our new rule proposal.
We are not the USA
Our national championships will still stay the same as
ifmar.
Maybe im reading it wrong
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
As it is. If one person was to be competitive in the national series they would have to do 7 events..
dropping it to 5 events (counted) brings in more people that would be in the hunt for the Nationals "series" trophy... and in turn would focus more drivers towards the events that are in the series that year.
There are very few superstars that cant do 15 mins these days.
No we are not in the USA.. but they are leaps and bounds ahead of us when it comes to Rc.. so perhaps its a good ideas to take a note out of there book.
You are reading it wrong. as far as the individual championships goes. it will stay the same as IFAMAR. and our National series will consist of less events.
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
the races are 7 mins so as to fit into a 3 day sheduale... not so superstars can out sprint anyone.. as Most "superstars normally still do well over 10 mins"
and the superstars that cannot keep their car intact for longer than 15mins will deny someone a spot in the Amain
Un the USA all of there nationals and major event are run the same as our new rule proposal.
We are not the USA
Our national championships will still stay the same as
ifmar.
Maybe im reading it wrong
The AARCMCC National Championship Series shall consist of 4 pre-nominated AARCMCC State Championship events and the AARCMCC Australian Championship event (5 rounds total)
As it is. If one person was to be competitive in the national series they would have to do 7 events..
dropping it to 5 events (counted) brings in more people that would be in the hunt for the Nationals "series" trophy... and in turn would focus more drivers towards the events that are in the series that year.
There are very few superstars that cant do 15 mins these days.
No we are not in the USA.. but they are leaps and bounds ahead of us when it comes to Rc.. so perhaps its a good ideas to take a note out of there book.
You are reading it wrong. as far as the individual championships goes. it will stay the same as IFAMAR. and our National series will consist of less events.
10-13-2011, 05:28 PM
#50
Hi Mark,
if we got the same drivers number (12 or 15) in both final (A,B,C or Xmas), the differents between the two will be one semi because on the A,B,C the otherone is already in the main (20 mins. saved)
You say that we need a gap, also because the bump up cars have to be scrutinyed to be able to race the next final, so if you look my example we are going to have 60+ mins. of gap without any race.
Because on the Xmas final there isn t any gap(race on the track at any time) why the A,B,C final is faster than Xmas final if both system got 15 driver on the rostrum?
Thank you
if we got the same drivers number (12 or 15) in both final (A,B,C or Xmas), the differents between the two will be one semi because on the A,B,C the otherone is already in the main (20 mins. saved)
You say that we need a gap, also because the bump up cars have to be scrutinyed to be able to race the next final, so if you look my example we are going to have 60+ mins. of gap without any race.
Because on the Xmas final there isn t any gap(race on the track at any time) why the A,B,C final is faster than Xmas final if both system got 15 driver on the rostrum?
Thank you
The Main is 45 minutes long (with a 10 minute practice beforehand for the top 10), but the B final only 30 minutes, and the lower finals only 20 minutes. Theoretically you should be able to do 2 back-to-back lower finals without more wear on the car than if you were just doing the Main.
Wouldn't a 10 minute break between the C and D be enough? If you've bumped up your car should still be in working order, so you just want to change the tyres and fill it up, maybe check all the screws are still tight.
10-13-2011, 06:03 PM
#51
Tech Master
Can I ask a silly question? Why do you need a gap between the C and D final?
The Main is 45 minutes long (with a 10 minute practice beforehand for the top 10), but the B final only 30 minutes, and the lower finals only 20 minutes. Theoretically you should be able to do 2 back-to-back lower finals without more wear on the car than if you were just doing the Main.
Wouldn't a 10 minute break between the C and D be enough? If you've bumped up your car should still be in working order, so you just want to change the tyres and fill it up, maybe check all the screws are still tight.
The Main is 45 minutes long (with a 10 minute practice beforehand for the top 10), but the B final only 30 minutes, and the lower finals only 20 minutes. Theoretically you should be able to do 2 back-to-back lower finals without more wear on the car than if you were just doing the Main.
Wouldn't a 10 minute break between the C and D be enough? If you've bumped up your car should still be in working order, so you just want to change the tyres and fill it up, maybe check all the screws are still tight.
Happy to continue the discussion, but not much point if the new formatt is voted down
Cheers
Mark
10-16-2011, 04:02 AM
#52
Can I ask a silly question? Why do you need a gap between the C and D final?
The Main is 45 minutes long (with a 10 minute practice beforehand for the top 10), but the B final only 30 minutes, and the lower finals only 20 minutes. Theoretically you should be able to do 2 back-to-back lower finals without more wear on the car than if you were just doing the Main.
Wouldn't a 10 minute break between the C and D be enough? If you've bumped up your car should still be in working order, so you just want to change the tyres and fill it up, maybe check all the screws are still tight.
The Main is 45 minutes long (with a 10 minute practice beforehand for the top 10), but the B final only 30 minutes, and the lower finals only 20 minutes. Theoretically you should be able to do 2 back-to-back lower finals without more wear on the car than if you were just doing the Main.
Wouldn't a 10 minute break between the C and D be enough? If you've bumped up your car should still be in working order, so you just want to change the tyres and fill it up, maybe check all the screws are still tight.
10-16-2011, 05:10 PM
#53
Even though the cars may be in working order, if the same rules apply as they do now, all cars that bump up require scrutineering, I would guess that scrutineering a car would take about 2-3 mins per car, there goes a minumum of 10 mins, then you need to get your car back, quick check over maybe change tyres, battery and maybe plug, time would need to be allowed for this as well.
10-16-2011, 11:33 PM
#54
I was working times on only the top five cars being scrutineered, which would be min 10 mins, and if you were the last bump spot and or the last driver to get you car back it wouldn't leave any time to work on the car, and the time taken would also depend the host clubs scrutineers experience, sorry but I cant see much of a time saving there at all.
10-17-2011, 03:01 AM
#57
Tech Fanatic
The 5 bump up cars go to the scrutiny table and then they will give the cars back to the drivers just when the last cars has been done so every bump up driver will have the same time to get his car ready for the next final.
If you don t have a clear rule that says this, you will have the first bump up driver with 15 mins. to fix his car for the next final and the 5th bump up driver with just 5 mins.
10-17-2011, 02:25 PM
#59
I was working times on only the top five cars being scrutineered, which would be min 10 mins, and if you were the last bump spot and or the last driver to get you car back it wouldn't leave any time to work on the car, and the time taken would also depend the host clubs scrutineers experience, sorry but I cant see much of a time saving there at all.
10-17-2011, 03:59 PM
#60
Must remember scrutineering is a "Parc Ferme" area, no car leaves until scrutineering is complete. No one gets a time advantage. With finals the scrutineering is completed in finishing order, that way if one fails, you scrutineer the next placed car. When the bump up positions are done, then the scrutineer gets to sit back, relax, and enjoy some racing.
Cheers
Scott
