Mini racing ...... Where is the future?
08-04-2008, 03:11 AM
#1
Mini racing ...... Where is the future?
I have started this thread to discuss the future of M03 chassis Mini racing. While many just consider the class as a "toy class" others enjoy the competitive nature of the small car with equal motor and gearing.
However in recent times changes have happened inside the R/C industry that will come to effect the Mini class as it stands.
The first obvious change has been the quality of the current control motor .. the tamiya Black Sport Tuned. In recent times the motor has been extremely unreliable with vastly varying performance. Add to that the extremely short lifespan and we have a brecipe for problems in the class.
The second change is the arrival of brushless systems and Lipo batteries. These are the future of our sport and they cannot be totally disregarded. The Lipo batteries give us better reliability and lifespan but have some restraints like not being discharged too low. This means that current cheap brushed ESC's are not suitable as they have no Lipo cutoff The brushles ESC and motor brings us longevity with the motor and not so widely varying performance.
The question becomes:
* Do we just stay with the current motor and put up with the vastly differing performance meaning that we buy large numbers of motors
* Do we replace the motor with a system that has more reliable and equal performance
* Is it possible to find a brushless motor that can mix in with the current motor and not be too fast.
We have been playing with various systems recently which we have found to be reliable and having equal performance across the range. Some of these have been:
Speed Passion Exige system (now being replaced by the Exige 2 and M chassis motor)
Hobbywing ESC and motor combo
The advantage of these systems has been good performance and very low cost (about $100 for ESC and motor)
It would be good to see various Mini racers comments and feedback reagrding the possibility of change
However in recent times changes have happened inside the R/C industry that will come to effect the Mini class as it stands.
The first obvious change has been the quality of the current control motor .. the tamiya Black Sport Tuned. In recent times the motor has been extremely unreliable with vastly varying performance. Add to that the extremely short lifespan and we have a brecipe for problems in the class.
The second change is the arrival of brushless systems and Lipo batteries. These are the future of our sport and they cannot be totally disregarded. The Lipo batteries give us better reliability and lifespan but have some restraints like not being discharged too low. This means that current cheap brushed ESC's are not suitable as they have no Lipo cutoff The brushles ESC and motor brings us longevity with the motor and not so widely varying performance.
The question becomes:
* Do we just stay with the current motor and put up with the vastly differing performance meaning that we buy large numbers of motors
* Do we replace the motor with a system that has more reliable and equal performance
* Is it possible to find a brushless motor that can mix in with the current motor and not be too fast.
We have been playing with various systems recently which we have found to be reliable and having equal performance across the range. Some of these have been:
Speed Passion Exige system (now being replaced by the Exige 2 and M chassis motor)
Hobbywing ESC and motor combo
The advantage of these systems has been good performance and very low cost (about $100 for ESC and motor)
It would be good to see various Mini racers comments and feedback reagrding the possibility of change
Last edited by cannon; 08-04-2008 at 04:13 AM.
08-04-2008, 03:30 AM
#2
Hi I will be happy to promote this option through NEMCC and see how it goes I am a fan of brushless setups what would be the closest in regards to speed of a tamiya black can motor?
08-04-2008, 03:36 AM
#3
I'm not quite what you'd call a mini racer, but i dabble, and i want to.
I don't think minis should be designated their own class most of the time. I think it's fair, but it's not much of a challenge if there's only three or four minis on the track at a time by themselves.
I think that mini racing need not be held back by sport tuned or equivalents. I think the next step up is stock motors. they're more reliable, they're quicker, they're sticking to a class that touring cars have been running for years.
Lipo's aren't a necessity. some high-amp NimH are more than sufficient 95% of the time. the other 5% is when everyone else is running lipo. even then, shouldn't matter.
The best thing that mini racing can do is diversify. It should be taken on in more and more clubs, but interest is a key factor.
Start small in your local, get bigger and bigger. VIC has a decent scene i've heard.
I don't think minis should be designated their own class most of the time. I think it's fair, but it's not much of a challenge if there's only three or four minis on the track at a time by themselves.
I think that mini racing need not be held back by sport tuned or equivalents. I think the next step up is stock motors. they're more reliable, they're quicker, they're sticking to a class that touring cars have been running for years.
Lipo's aren't a necessity. some high-amp NimH are more than sufficient 95% of the time. the other 5% is when everyone else is running lipo. even then, shouldn't matter.
The best thing that mini racing can do is diversify. It should be taken on in more and more clubs, but interest is a key factor.
Start small in your local, get bigger and bigger. VIC has a decent scene i've heard.
08-04-2008, 03:58 AM
#4
Madman,
The systems we have been playing with are quicker than the Black can but not by that much. The advantage is that the BL system is very equal in performance .. not like the current black cans
The latest system is the Hobbywing 3300kV system
Dorigecko,
Not being rude but you have missed the point a little here. The Mini class was about trying to find a motor system that will allow us to use the current pinion restrictions. Too much horsepower in the Mini wil mean more breakages and meltdowns .. the Mini is durable but not designed for high horsepower.
Yes Lipos are not a necessity but our hobby is evolving and it is already the case that Lipos are getting as cheap as NiMh stick packs.. and far more reliable
The systems we have been playing with are quicker than the Black can but not by that much. The advantage is that the BL system is very equal in performance .. not like the current black cans
The latest system is the Hobbywing 3300kV system
Dorigecko,
Not being rude but you have missed the point a little here. The Mini class was about trying to find a motor system that will allow us to use the current pinion restrictions. Too much horsepower in the Mini wil mean more breakages and meltdowns .. the Mini is durable but not designed for high horsepower.
Yes Lipos are not a necessity but our hobby is evolving and it is already the case that Lipos are getting as cheap as NiMh stick packs.. and far more reliable
08-04-2008, 04:07 AM
#5
Suspended
what sort of Mini racing are you talking about?
are you referencing the Tamiya Mini Coopers?
otherwise I think you're causing confusion, especially since this is a US-based discussion board, because many places mini-racing is referring to 1/18th scale racing where there are many classes but none of them use 540-sized motors
are you referencing the Tamiya Mini Coopers?
otherwise I think you're causing confusion, especially since this is a US-based discussion board, because many places mini-racing is referring to 1/18th scale racing where there are many classes but none of them use 540-sized motors
08-04-2008, 04:26 AM
#7
at sma (tempe nsw)
we have disgussed this same problem and the cammite came up with no brushless and waght to stay the same but li po's can be used
but with the unreliable black cans i think brushless may be allowed in the next few years
we have disgussed this same problem and the cammite came up with no brushless and waght to stay the same but li po's can be used
but with the unreliable black cans i think brushless may be allowed in the next few years
08-04-2008, 04:27 AM
#8
I run mini as a second class on sundays when i think the nitro is going to sail smoothly. I love it because its a controlled class, and fairly cheap.
I am not against lipo's in mini racing, cost wise they are ball park with a decent nimh. although the charger is a few more $'s. As long as the weight restrictions remain the same.
As for the brushless, im a bit on the fence. I actually run the first motor that comes out of the box and im competitive. I would like to see a brushless system to eliminate the inconsistencies but what ever is done ( and i think this will be the hard bit) someone showing up with a sports tune should be competitive.
What people need to remember is the mini should be a cheap, simple uncomplex fun class.
I am not against lipo's in mini racing, cost wise they are ball park with a decent nimh. although the charger is a few more $'s. As long as the weight restrictions remain the same.
As for the brushless, im a bit on the fence. I actually run the first motor that comes out of the box and im competitive. I would like to see a brushless system to eliminate the inconsistencies but what ever is done ( and i think this will be the hard bit) someone showing up with a sports tune should be competitive.
What people need to remember is the mini should be a cheap, simple uncomplex fun class.
08-04-2008, 04:32 AM
#9
Yes would agree with the cheap fun class. If it wasn't for the recent severe inconsistencies in the motor I would have stay with the black can but when you see one racer pull; 5 metres out of another mini on a straight where handling doesn't come in to the equation then it is time to look for an alternative motor.
Otherwise you are out buying motors all the time.
As for batteries .. have found most Lipo chargers are actually cheaper and lightweight Minis do not work. The weights would stay the same as Minis need a bit of weight to work
Otherwise you are out buying motors all the time.
As for batteries .. have found most Lipo chargers are actually cheaper and lightweight Minis do not work. The weights would stay the same as Minis need a bit of weight to work
08-04-2008, 05:24 AM
#10
Yes would agree with the cheap fun class. If it wasn't for the recent severe inconsistencies in the motor I would have stay with the black can but when you see one racer pull; 5 metres out of another mini on a straight where handling doesn't come in to the equation then it is time to look for an alternative motor.
Otherwise you are out buying motors all the time.
As for batteries .. have found most Lipo chargers are actually cheaper and lightweight Minis do not work. The weights would stay the same as Minis need a bit of weight to work
Otherwise you are out buying motors all the time.
As for batteries .. have found most Lipo chargers are actually cheaper and lightweight Minis do not work. The weights would stay the same as Minis need a bit of weight to work
$100 for a speedy/motor combo seems fair....
Now if we could just get a tyre rule in place
08-04-2008, 05:24 AM
#11
Madman,
The systems we have been playing with are quicker than the Black can but not by that much. The advantage is that the BL system is very equal in performance .. not like the current black cans
The latest system is the Hobbywing 3300kV system
Dorigecko,
Not being rude but you have missed the point a little here. The Mini class was about trying to find a motor system that will allow us to use the current pinion restrictions. Too much horsepower in the Mini wil mean more breakages and meltdowns .. the Mini is durable but not designed for high horsepower.
Yes Lipos are not a necessity but our hobby is evolving and it is already the case that Lipos are getting as cheap as NiMh stick packs.. and far more reliable
The systems we have been playing with are quicker than the Black can but not by that much. The advantage is that the BL system is very equal in performance .. not like the current black cans
The latest system is the Hobbywing 3300kV system
Dorigecko,
Not being rude but you have missed the point a little here. The Mini class was about trying to find a motor system that will allow us to use the current pinion restrictions. Too much horsepower in the Mini wil mean more breakages and meltdowns .. the Mini is durable but not designed for high horsepower.
Yes Lipos are not a necessity but our hobby is evolving and it is already the case that Lipos are getting as cheap as NiMh stick packs.. and far more reliable
08-04-2008, 06:28 AM
#14
the other prob is you need to find a tyre thats avalibal at most hobby shops but it seems that no tyre statys avalible long rc mini reported on a tyre that was spost to last but no 1 stocks them or if they do dont have stock
08-04-2008, 06:37 AM
#15
Trouble is that most hobby shops are not interested in keeping supplies of tyres for Mini racers. that is why I started stocking them (and Harris R/C as well)
Back to the motors .. there are a number of companies in China that make a 3300kV motor which should mean that we eliminate the chance of lack of supply
Back to the motors .. there are a number of companies in China that make a 3300kV motor which should mean that we eliminate the chance of lack of supply