fastolfart

A couple of good comments there, but the entry fee for an event has just hit $80+, if you think it should be cheaper, we better get some one to start throwing in the tyres for nothing. We can't have the club suffering a loss of money as they are the one that need it. You will also have to mark these tyres permently so no one can use others they have brought along, and you will have to make sure that the tyres suit everyones taste for the track, the club will have to make sure that the track does not change conditions durring the meeting (lap times have to remain within say 15% consistancy) the weather will have to be accounted for etc etc.
And we will have to control the front tyres, someone might have the advantage there on their own !!
Sorry I just started to ramble on again.

But the control class, with motor, gearing, tyres, etc, is good
But then why don't we make the chassis controled as well and maybe the springs and shock oil, and shock locating points, and radios, and servos, and antenna tubes, and not forgetting the colour of the bodies.
There I go again

But a control class can work, but maybe we should look at it for the bottom end of the racing instead of restricting the best we have. Then we can get more beginners interested in the racing at a cheaper cost

PS, I'm not trying to critisise your ideas, but i am just looking from the out side of the square

guru

It seems to me that you guys that want a control tyre are saying

*lets try to bring the top guys back a few levels to our standard !
BUT wouldn't it be more challanging & rewarding to hunt them down & get better rather than droping the standard, remember the top drivers don't wish to run in with the rifraf ,& to be honost you'd probley lose drivers ;and the sport definatly doesn't need that!!

cantona

seeing 540 nationally has dropped off, maybe its time to look at totally reforming 540, and making it the "spec class", because lets face it, when you start out things need to be as simple as possible.

In a new 540 you could have spec tires, spec motor, battery limit, etc etc,

a class for cars such as the duratrax, the kyosho RB and possibly the traxxas. Work it in with the what the hobby shops want and sell.

I think control tires could work at big races, it would be up to the club running the races to make sure the track didnt drift too far away from the characteristics of the control tire.

cantona

guru- hows it going mate? any news on a date for the CMC indoor race?

Retro Racer

Fastolfart - reedy style races for the sponsored drivers - BLOODY BRILLIANT IDEA........then, as one of the entrepid posters here said, the "sponsored drivers would not have to run with the "RIF RAF".....LOLOL

NO way was anything I was trying to put forward to bring "down" the sponsored drivers.....however - how many unsposored drivers could compete at the top level for a year........and still have a house at the end of it..?

Mod could be restricted in the sense of a set number of tyres for a big meeting........if brushless motors get in and approved - batteries are no longer a problem - unless you start wanting to race for 8 or ten minutes.......

But before any of this happens - GRASS ROOTS as you suggest peter are the most important thing : Take control of the racing away from the importers and get a freaking national body that is a NATIONAL body.......from there - things can be organised - not changed at someones whim.........

Consistancy between the states within Australia as a whole needs to be addressed.

Sadly - it appears that no one really wants the job anymore - as there are no rewards (either financial or personal) - other than us whinging racers.....

Sorry to be so long whinded - however I loved racing dearly........and most especially off road........it was and is sad to see it so low.

Cheers

Darryn

sleek the elite

Well I've had to go back and Read the WHOLE bloody thread AGAIN and once again I can't find anywhere where anyone has said that they want top drivers to be slower so they can keep up. All this is about is trying to reduce costs. Fullstop. Nothing else. You reduce costs, racing becomes a more attractive option for people. That is one reason I liked CMC so much guru, pretty much no tyre costs.

FastolFart, you say why fix what isn't broken, but then contradict yourself by saying racing is suffering from low numbers...so tell me exactly, what have you got to lose ???? Are control tyres so evil that peoples cars will spontaneously explode if they drop below 20 kph ?

You also say that new tyres are better than one run old tyres. BINGO... you are dead right there old son, that is why you limit the number of sets you can use. that way you can't just put a new set on every run.

And you only have one type of tyre that you have to buy, not buy ten to find out which tyre works "gorv point F*#@ all" percent better than the other nine, think about how many pairs that saves you. For a big event, the tyre could be something that works well at that track. For a smaller series, it could be a tyre such as a holeshot that works decently everywhere.

I like your idea about bringing control tyres in at the bottom end. If you bring something like this in across the board, I admit it would probably rub people up the wrong way. If you had a control class, people could see it in action and decide on observation whether or not it would be a good thing to trial control tyres further. Not just dismiss it out of hand. Even one class with control tyres would probably keep a fair portion of racers happier.

Painy

iTrader: (2)

i think control tyrs would be awsome..say Proline Holeshots "i use them at every track" say 2 pairs per class..

fastolfart

By AU-nightmare

by Sleek Da Elite

Hmmmmm. no further comment

Think about why we don't have much new blood comming into the off road scene. (this is what i see as broken)
Will tyre control on it's own fix this problem ?

The broken part of off road is getting new faces interested to start with, Cantona's idea of a control beginners class will work here as it gives everyone a level playing field.

I personally can not see restricting our top line and sponsered mod drivers to a particular tyre (and # of) will make anyone else more competitive with them (the reason for having a pro class like the Reedy at State and Nats)
If this took place, we could then put restrictions on the rest of the mod class drivers, but I would think that tyres on there own is not enough, motors and batteries will have to be controlled as well.

Now when we start talking about club level racing, I would agree that controlled tyres and #'s used between the clubs is a good idea, but that is up too the clubs to work out.

PS don't just control the rear tyres, control all 4 tyres

sleek the elite

well I'm glad you're making no further comment, because of the 2 quotes you pulled out, one was from someone who is against control tyres, and the other was me talking about how control tyres in mod can and do work. This has nothing to do with somehow trying to make a level playing field. I never said "we have to have control tyres in mod to slow the fast guys down" and nor did anybody else. I really think the fast guys would be just as fast even if they are on a control tyre.

I'm just saying for your own sake, try it, in any class, and see how it goes. I really don't care enough to keep arguing about it, I will race regardless. In fact I was even more against control tyres than you are, believe it or not, until they were introduced here and we all started saving money. I am just trying to do the right thing and share information with you about the positive experience that we've had here. I admit that what works here may not work elsewhere, that happens sometimes.....look at gp20 and stock..

tones

iTrader: (55)

the 'brisbane dirt racing' (pine hills) track has gone from about 6 people racing in total, to what.. easily 30+ people on any given race day in a reasonably short amount of time.

the things i feel had the biggest impact on this:

emphasis on fun.. if spectators see people having a good time they'll feel more inclided to look further into the hobby.

and we go out of our way to welcome and help new racers.

instead of having heaps of differant classes there are 2, electric stock & nitro 1/10th scale.. having really full heats (sometimes 3 full heats of stock alone) looks alot better to onlookers than just a bunch of races with a couple of cars in it.

multiple heats are graded roughly by skill so you're racing against people of around the same skill level.

people are free to run slower motors, etc.. not too nazi about equipment rules, especially when people are just starting out.

introducing nitro was a big boost for the club numbers wise, and the extra noise seems to attract more people to come have a look.

almost every week now there is another new racer eager to get into it, after coming to watch a few races.

as for control tyres, i dont think they'd help things at this particular club (as an example) - i try to reccomend tyres particularly to the newer racers.. but some of them will tell you how bad those are - and go back to happily going around with studs or whatever they feel works for them, forcing somehting like a holeshot (that's been mentioned) would definatly upset these sorts of racers.

by the time you get a group of tires together to cover most conditions (or drivers styles), and then all the differant compounds of those.. you probably not much better off if at all.

perhaps for a "big race" it could be trialed (rather than restricting them generally at a club level), you could chose a specific tyre that is the best for that track, and limit the number allowed. this would save people having to bring a heap of tyres to cover their bases & stop people using fresh rubber each run.

but if your goal is to boost numbers i think some of the above points are much more important.

2-Bad

iTrader: (24)

For General Information, the Queensland Off-Road Titles are being held on the 7th - 9th of June in Townsville. Entry forms are available from http://www.orrcaqld.org.au/Offroad.htm

NOFX

iTrader: (25)

2-bad, ur posting in every bloody thread, just creat a new thread for the QLD states man, that way, people can ask u questions in one place and u can answer them, btw, soz i cant make it, thats right before uni exams

fastolfart

sleek the elite
If you bother to read the rest of my post instead of blowing up at the first comments, I agree with club level racing going to control tyres. So go and re-read the post and look at it from another angle

tones
So excelent to hear that your club has a recipe for building numbers, unfortunatly in Sydney, no-one seems interested in running their Nitro cars at club level. They would rather hack up the track when we are not there.
our electric side is restricted to were the people what to race and is fair, but we don't do enough with the LHS to get more PPl into racing. (something that needs to be fixed)

Fella

iTrader: (1)

Best people to ask about the success or falure of a control tyre class would be someone form ORRCA QLD form a few years ago. Heavy D would probably be the best person. ORRCA QLD used to run a controlled off road class, where they controlled the motor and the rear tyres. Unlike Western Aust. the QLD people had a choice of 2 losi tyres and 2 proline tyres. Why the form of racing stopped there I don't really know. Be it because of it being hard to keep a steady supply of tyres or to stop it to boost up the numbers in stock and or modified.

The controlled tyre idea can keep the cost of racing down and even make the playing feild fairer. But if people are into cutting and modifing the tyres to fine tune the grip level, well the cost of tyres then goes back up to around non controlled tyre racing.

I am not concerned whether or not we race on control tyres, I'll go out and have a run on anything and have some fun.

Just thought I'd through my 2 cents into the ring.

Retro Racer

Control tyres are and would be a great choice - however it is the RESTRICTION of them at a meeting that is the most important........no point having a control tyre - if you can have as many as you want...... Again - we need to look to "REAL" motorsport for this.

I Have watched people "trim" their tyres before.........and can remember new kids saying - hey man - what a waste............

from the mouths of kids eh !! ?? LOL

It looked like it was going to get nasty for a while - glad most have been adult about it.

Cheers

Darryn