Nitro Engine Break In
#1
Nitro Engine Break In
hi all!
theres 2 main engine break in procedures i have been hearing of and i want to know from you guys which is best.
Idle break in? i heard its the old skool method and that it actually does harm to engines and makes them have a shorter life span. true?
heat cycling break in? i heard that its currently the best to date method of breaking in and ensures a longer lasting engine with more power. true?
alot of people i know use both methods and have had no problems and find their vehicles to be excellent and long lasting. but i want to hear from others to find out which method comes out on top.
as i am going to get a TNX 5.2R i really would like to get the most out of the engine and to keep it running strong for months to come.
thanks,
george
theres 2 main engine break in procedures i have been hearing of and i want to know from you guys which is best.
Idle break in? i heard its the old skool method and that it actually does harm to engines and makes them have a shorter life span. true?
heat cycling break in? i heard that its currently the best to date method of breaking in and ensures a longer lasting engine with more power. true?
alot of people i know use both methods and have had no problems and find their vehicles to be excellent and long lasting. but i want to hear from others to find out which method comes out on top.
as i am going to get a TNX 5.2R i really would like to get the most out of the engine and to keep it running strong for months to come.
thanks,
george
#2
Tech Elite
iTrader: (22)
If you are still idling at least a tank through during break-in, you're using the old-school accepted method (still works well for some!) but it's not the method that the top engine guys (Ron Paris, Dennis Richey, Rody Roem, Michael Salven are just a few I've spoken personally with about this) recommend anymore.
From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC, and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this mannerfor about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your OS will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your OS's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.
You say you run the engine at "factory settings" for the first FIVE tanks? That alone causes lots of stress, as the factory OS settings are very rich on every OS I've ever owned or tuned. The piston & sleeve haven't expanded to operating temps, and every time the engine turns over, the piston slams into the pinch zone at TDC. The not-so-surprising result can be a cracked con-rod at the crank pin--that's where the majority of the stresses occur as the engine turns over. I've only heard of about 6-8 OS engines breaking con-rods, and they're ALWAYS during the first gallon...and almost every time it's because the guys have performed the break-in procedure you described. Doesn't seem like a mystery as to why it's happening. Drawing out the break-in routine really stresses the engine & actually wears away compression along the way. This method I've outlined will feel weird at every step, but after you try it once, you'll notice a big difference in your engine's performance & lifespan.
Hope this helps; give this break-in method a shot--you have nothing to gain except longer life & more power
Cheers
From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC, and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this mannerfor about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your OS will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your OS's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.
You say you run the engine at "factory settings" for the first FIVE tanks? That alone causes lots of stress, as the factory OS settings are very rich on every OS I've ever owned or tuned. The piston & sleeve haven't expanded to operating temps, and every time the engine turns over, the piston slams into the pinch zone at TDC. The not-so-surprising result can be a cracked con-rod at the crank pin--that's where the majority of the stresses occur as the engine turns over. I've only heard of about 6-8 OS engines breaking con-rods, and they're ALWAYS during the first gallon...and almost every time it's because the guys have performed the break-in procedure you described. Doesn't seem like a mystery as to why it's happening. Drawing out the break-in routine really stresses the engine & actually wears away compression along the way. This method I've outlined will feel weird at every step, but after you try it once, you'll notice a big difference in your engine's performance & lifespan.
Hope this helps; give this break-in method a shot--you have nothing to gain except longer life & more power
Cheers
#3
Right on !
#4
Tech Champion
iTrader: (10)
Originally Posted by Inferno
If you are still idling at least a tank through during break-in, you're using the old-school accepted method (still works well for some!) but it's not the method that the top engine guys (Ron Paris, Dennis Richey, Rody Roem, Michael Salven are just a few I've spoken personally with about this) recommend anymore.
From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC, and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this mannerfor about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your OS will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your OS's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.
You say you run the engine at "factory settings" for the first FIVE tanks? That alone causes lots of stress, as the factory OS settings are very rich on every OS I've ever owned or tuned. The piston & sleeve haven't expanded to operating temps, and every time the engine turns over, the piston slams into the pinch zone at TDC. The not-so-surprising result can be a cracked con-rod at the crank pin--that's where the majority of the stresses occur as the engine turns over. I've only heard of about 6-8 OS engines breaking con-rods, and they're ALWAYS during the first gallon...and almost every time it's because the guys have performed the break-in procedure you described. Doesn't seem like a mystery as to why it's happening. Drawing out the break-in routine really stresses the engine & actually wears away compression along the way. This method I've outlined will feel weird at every step, but after you try it once, you'll notice a big difference in your engine's performance & lifespan.
Hope this helps; give this break-in method a shot--you have nothing to gain except longer life & more power
Cheers
From the very 1st time you start your engine, plop the car on the ground & begin running it in a parking lot in 2-3 minute intervals, tuned only *slightly rich* getting the temps up in the 200F range on a normal day. Every 2-3 minutes, shut the engine down & let it cool completely with the piston at BDC, and then fire it back up; continue this cycle until you've run 15 min or so, and then bump up to 3-4 minute intervals. Vary the RPM and don't be afraid to get the temps in the 200's. What you want is heat cycling of the components without the incredible stress that comes with breaking an engine in when it's overly rich & cold. After cycling the engine in this mannerfor about 20-25 total minutes, it'll be ready for the track and race tuning. I realize this method goes against the old-school "idle on the box" routine, but you'll be amazed once you've completed this break-in routine, your OS will still have amazing pinch w/out sticking at the top AND your OS's compression will last far longer than it will with the "old school" method.
You say you run the engine at "factory settings" for the first FIVE tanks? That alone causes lots of stress, as the factory OS settings are very rich on every OS I've ever owned or tuned. The piston & sleeve haven't expanded to operating temps, and every time the engine turns over, the piston slams into the pinch zone at TDC. The not-so-surprising result can be a cracked con-rod at the crank pin--that's where the majority of the stresses occur as the engine turns over. I've only heard of about 6-8 OS engines breaking con-rods, and they're ALWAYS during the first gallon...and almost every time it's because the guys have performed the break-in procedure you described. Doesn't seem like a mystery as to why it's happening. Drawing out the break-in routine really stresses the engine & actually wears away compression along the way. This method I've outlined will feel weird at every step, but after you try it once, you'll notice a big difference in your engine's performance & lifespan.
Hope this helps; give this break-in method a shot--you have nothing to gain except longer life & more power
Cheers
i used to use the oldschool method, and i'm suprised at how easy it is with the "newer" method. but now that i look back since i started racign, there was always people who said "break it in slow, it goes slow, break it in quick, it goes quick" they've been proven right
#5
Yeah what happens with getting the engine up to heat is that tolerances expand to their designed fit. This causes the piston and sleeve to wear at a much slower rate. You can run hard and hot all day long and at the end of the day your engine is still nice and tight. Usually using this method saves bearings and rods. Youll find the engine will come on power near the 3 to 4 litre mark. Thats when it will wake up and take on a whole new persona.
Cheers MM
Cheers MM
#6
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
Hello all, Run in is very improtant and i think it realy depends on the engine brand as to how you should run the engine in Most of my exprence is with Sirio engines and There is only one way to run a sirio engine in properly and thats full throttal at a supper ritch carb setting and useing the fuel tank lid to keep the engine running. But I think there is a defrent methed for A novarossi based engine thats novarossi rb concepts novabase engines and maxpower shark ppx I find they like the idle heat cycle methed. It realy should only take about 40min of running for an engine to be fully broken in. A Properly run-in engine you should be able to remove the glow plug and the piston should turn very ezy and not lock or grab. But when the plug is in the engine has a tone of compreshion. An engine like that is ready to rev very high and hard. But Apart form that I think it realy depends on the type of engine you would not run a force engine in like a sirio. Thats my thoughts It is a very tricky subject to comment on as so many difrent way can be used and Probaly all of them work if done properly. Regards Jeremy.
#7
Dude dont mis lead people with this crap, every engine works the same they run fuel and glow plugs and they all react to heat and expansion. Saying an RB is different to a Sirio on break in is wrong.
#9
and so how do i know how rich i am running? or how lean i am running? i've had no experience with the TNX's 5.2cc FR-32FX Engine before. would it say in the manual or is there a rule of thumb? like screw in all the way and undo 4 full turns or what?
thanks for the info guys!
thanks for the info guys!
#10
Tech Champion
iTrader: (10)
Originally Posted by pro4_racer
and so how do i know how rich i am running? or how lean i am running? i've had no experience with the TNX's 5.2cc FR-32FX Engine before. would it say in the manual or is there a rule of thumb? like screw in all the way and undo 4 full turns or what?
thanks for the info guys!
thanks for the info guys!
if it is 80 degrees or less, either you are not blipping the throttle enough (blip it, and slowly rev it up then drop, repeat. don't floor it for the first tank)
or it is just oo rich. try covering the heatsink with aluminium foil, if this does not increase the temps (take foil of to check temps) then it is too rich, lean it a fraction.
for the second tank do about half a tank ont he bench with the same "blipping" and "slow increase throttle" technique, the put it on the ground and drive it around graduating the throttle input, ie, slow gradual build ups of throttle, and short sharp revs, kep the car constantly moving, don;t be too preocupied about themp at this point.
drive it for another tank. (sorry had to clarify this, i ment drive it not repeat the above)
now take it to a park or wherever, and drive it. check the temps. they should be around 100 to 130 (this really reeeeeeealy depends on your fuel and plugs used).
once this has been done. after run it, then do final tunes at the track. when track tuning don't take notice of your temp gun, just tune so that it is consistent in it's power and the car does not become slugish out of the corners after say 3 minutes of constant hard racing. if the car becomes soft out of corners after 3 minutes or so of hard racing the low end is slightly lean richen it 1/8th.
at top end WOT the car should blowa trail of smoke exiting the corner ( a bit not an enourmous amount) and the smoke trail should become very small, to none by the end of the straight.
always ask for help from an experienced person when breaking in at the track, as looking for the signs of a well tuned motor can be hard sometimes. clutch setup is also a major factor, but you'll get confused if too much info is thrown at you at once, so leave this to later
Last edited by TomB; 01-05-2007 at 03:23 AM.
#11
Registered User
Running in a motor? every one has their own way.
If you have no expirance with that engine ask some one that runs one what the normal run in setting is approx. add a 1/4 of a turn ,set idle mixture, doing this alone will take a minute or so.
run for 2-3 min slow on ground not giving any more than half throttle.
Slowly lengthen time and speed until you can pull the plug out of a WARM engine and it dosen't pinch at the top.
too rich and you are just hammering conrod.(liquids are not compressable).
use a warm to hot plug for run in.
Like most guys say get it to opperating temp but not to much.
Don't nurse it but dont flog it, just very the rev's.
Then you can put a cooler plug in and lean off but back off at half straight for the first few serious runs. then give it to it.
Have fun
If you have no expirance with that engine ask some one that runs one what the normal run in setting is approx. add a 1/4 of a turn ,set idle mixture, doing this alone will take a minute or so.
run for 2-3 min slow on ground not giving any more than half throttle.
Slowly lengthen time and speed until you can pull the plug out of a WARM engine and it dosen't pinch at the top.
too rich and you are just hammering conrod.(liquids are not compressable).
use a warm to hot plug for run in.
Like most guys say get it to opperating temp but not to much.
Don't nurse it but dont flog it, just very the rev's.
Then you can put a cooler plug in and lean off but back off at half straight for the first few serious runs. then give it to it.
Have fun
#12
Originally Posted by TomB
no get a temp gun, and break it in via temp. the engine whilst you have it on the bench for the first tank (wheels not contacting anything) should be reaching 90 to 100 degrees celcius. anything lower and it is too cool.
if it is 80 degrees or less, either you are not blipping the throttle enough (blip it, and slowly rev it up then drop, repeat. don't floor it for the first tank)
or it is just oo rich. try covering the heatsink with aluminium foil, if this does not increase the temps (take foil of to check temps) then it is too rich, lean it a fraction.
for the second tank do about half a tank ont he bench with the same "blipping" and "slow increase throttle" technique, the put it on the ground and drive it around graduating the throttle input, ie, slow gradual build ups of throttle, and short sharp revs, kep the car constantly moving, don;t be too preocupied about themp at this point.
do this for another tank.
now take it to a park or wherever, and drive it. check the temps. they should be around 100 to 130 (this really reeeeeeealy depends on your fuel and plugs used).
once this has been done. after run it, then do final tunes at the track. when track tuning don't take notice of your temp gun, just tune so that it is consistent in it's power and the car does not become slugish out of the corners after say 3 minutes of constant hard racing. if the car becomes soft out of corners after 3 minutes or so of hard racing the low end is slightly lean richen it 1/8th.
at top end WOT the car should blowa trail of smoke exiting the corner ( a bit not an enourmous amount) and the smoke trail should become very small, to none by the end of the straight.
always ask for help from an experienced person when breaking in at the track, as looking for the signs of a well tuned motor can be hard sometimes. clutch setup is also a major factor, but you'll get confused if too much info is thrown at you at once, so leave this to later
if it is 80 degrees or less, either you are not blipping the throttle enough (blip it, and slowly rev it up then drop, repeat. don't floor it for the first tank)
or it is just oo rich. try covering the heatsink with aluminium foil, if this does not increase the temps (take foil of to check temps) then it is too rich, lean it a fraction.
for the second tank do about half a tank ont he bench with the same "blipping" and "slow increase throttle" technique, the put it on the ground and drive it around graduating the throttle input, ie, slow gradual build ups of throttle, and short sharp revs, kep the car constantly moving, don;t be too preocupied about themp at this point.
do this for another tank.
now take it to a park or wherever, and drive it. check the temps. they should be around 100 to 130 (this really reeeeeeealy depends on your fuel and plugs used).
once this has been done. after run it, then do final tunes at the track. when track tuning don't take notice of your temp gun, just tune so that it is consistent in it's power and the car does not become slugish out of the corners after say 3 minutes of constant hard racing. if the car becomes soft out of corners after 3 minutes or so of hard racing the low end is slightly lean richen it 1/8th.
at top end WOT the car should blowa trail of smoke exiting the corner ( a bit not an enourmous amount) and the smoke trail should become very small, to none by the end of the straight.
always ask for help from an experienced person when breaking in at the track, as looking for the signs of a well tuned motor can be hard sometimes. clutch setup is also a major factor, but you'll get confused if too much info is thrown at you at once, so leave this to later
and i cant get a temp gun
#13
go with the way inferno said and a temp gauge should not be used for tuning aid, use it as a guide only as different engines like to run a different temps, Tomb you say you like it one way (MM way) and tell him to do it another
#14
Tech Champion
iTrader: (10)
Originally Posted by pro4_racer
that makes no sense, your going against and doing something different compared to the break in method you said was great which Inferno posted and now you say not to run it on the ground but idle and rev it for the first 2 tanks? confusing
and i cant get a temp gun
and i cant get a temp gun
#15
here is what i plan to do:
tanks 1-3: run for 3 min fairly slow then let totally cool down and repeat until all tanks 3 tanks are done.
tanks 4 and 5: run for 4 min from slow to 50% throttle then let totally cool down and repeat until last 2 tanks are done.
then onto track tuning and just leaning it out slowly bit by bit and if the engine hesitates turn back needle 1/4 and continue leaning until it runs good.
sounds reasonable?
tanks 1-3: run for 3 min fairly slow then let totally cool down and repeat until all tanks 3 tanks are done.
tanks 4 and 5: run for 4 min from slow to 50% throttle then let totally cool down and repeat until last 2 tanks are done.
then onto track tuning and just leaning it out slowly bit by bit and if the engine hesitates turn back needle 1/4 and continue leaning until it runs good.
sounds reasonable?