South East Queensland - Interclub Competition
#62
Originally Posted by Bundy_Bear
Alot of people seem to buying this new Os engine... Is it club legal yet for GTourers or are people jumping the gun?
BB
BB
Fear enough side exhaust motors don't fit straight into these top end cars, then why did they buy them???
By running rear exhaust motors allows money to be spent on tuned pipes which makes for a huge difference.
I couldn't believe it when our interclub rep came back and told us that the interclub committee have decided to let rear exhaust motors run and if we didn't follow suit that or club was under threat of loosing our round of the interclub. Followed by this was an email on voting if Bayside should be ejected from the interclub series. What shame on some 8 people deciding the fate on a whole club.
I am not completly against "REAR" motors but WE HAVE NOT SEEN THEM RUN so why would you change the rules. (talking about the OS TG) The rules weren't change to allow brushless stock motors untill some experiment took place, was it 6 months.
#63
Originally Posted by graham1234
I do recall those days bundy, a spyder cost about $500.00 a CVX over $300.00, two speed about $80.00, a tuned pipe around $80.00, Tyres were around $120.00 for a set, Pullstarters were expensive to fix more then a whole motor from Hong Kong. Not to mention sway bars,spring sets, constant breakages because of light build quality and poor traction as a result of rubber tyres. But even so heaps of people raced this class and plenty still do but because of internet competition prices are much less. A top quality rolling chassis for about $550.00, motor around $180.00, pipe and header $50.00, foam tyres $30.00 for a full set, decent remote with servos about $250.00, a bump starter $120.00 and this is'nt for a spyder or a tsn but a Mugen, Serpent, V1RRR ($60.00 more expensive) or Tc3. Because of Hong Kong and America internet traders the hobby is now about the same cost for much better quality.
For example the new V1S series 3 is basically a V1RRR with some differences to allow a pullstarter, same geometry. This car will be the one to have in the afore mentioned class. Is it fair that somebody turns up with a CEN or HPI and gets owned by this car and they will. They then need to spend money on a more competitive chassis.
And on the subject of spend, how many peoples cars are full of high dollar bearings, lightened shafts and parts, different engine mounts, etc etc. It seems that the whole idea of a "cheap class" is great in theory, but as anybody who has tried to race 540 or stock competitively will tell you it does not work that way. People with money will spend it on things that sometimes may give them an advantage. I know some people in "tourer" who are replacing their motors or liners very regularly. Also some people are using 25 and 30% nitro regularly. Until the specific gravity tests are used more regularly this will continue.
#64
Originally Posted by rchopeless
By running rear exhaust motors allows money to be spent on tuned pipes which makes for a huge difference.
Also most side exhaust headers are poorly constructed and too long or thin. Only a very few make decent power. I anybody saw my car going at the Wintercup you would have seen my .76 hp OS performing as good as any 1hp motor out there due to the pipe and header combo I was using. Also the header I bought was not port matched to the blocks exhaust port so I spent a good hour with some files shaping it to nicely meet the block. Then I flanged the end so that the rubber connector would meet grip tightly and roughed up the surface of the pipe so the connector would grip it. Even then it slipped a little. Not to mention the fact that if i had of taken a hit to the header it would have had no give and probably bent.
Running rear exhaust pipes which are inline requires the installation of 2 gaskets and 4 springs. Also they have some give so that they can take some hits and rubbing and not bend.
#65
Missing the point !
Guys
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
#66
Originally Posted by Broncos
Guys
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
now thats callling the kettle black
#67
Abiding by the rules
The current rules allow for this, and historically yes I have using the spec. you mentioned - we are discussing the future not the past !
I will only be running Pro Tourer in 2007, mainly for reasons of responsibilties to the club rather than the proposed changes of the rules.
My statements are irrelevant of my own personal agenda, I am suggesting improvements which I believe will benifit club level racing and RC racing in general, especially at Interclub competitions.
I will only be running Pro Tourer in 2007, mainly for reasons of responsibilties to the club rather than the proposed changes of the rules.
My statements are irrelevant of my own personal agenda, I am suggesting improvements which I believe will benifit club level racing and RC racing in general, especially at Interclub competitions.
#68
Tech Fanatic
Gas Engines Pull Start Class
Hi Everybody,
Lots of discussion on R/C Tec
Pull Start Gas Powered Cars which are quite a competative class never used to be bump started but now are and everyone was happy about it, so why not move forward with engines as well, side or rear exhaust, does it really matter!! We should be able to run any engine available on the market up to 1.05 hp for pull start gas providing manufacturers specifications meet class rules, as for power gained in removing the pull starter (which are a pain in the butt ) what power % gained would that be? and could be rectified by adding weight. As for changing liners, most people are honest, Optimum performance can be gained through pipes and tuning Pull Start Gas doesnt need to be hindered by too many rules and regulations, if you need to get really serious about racing go to Pro-Tourers. Pull start gas cars were expensive to run 5yrs ago and although were said to be RTR they were not.
In conclusion lets not forget what we race for and that is to have fun, and be with our fellow racers. Kerry Lloyd-Jones...
Lots of discussion on R/C Tec
Pull Start Gas Powered Cars which are quite a competative class never used to be bump started but now are and everyone was happy about it, so why not move forward with engines as well, side or rear exhaust, does it really matter!! We should be able to run any engine available on the market up to 1.05 hp for pull start gas providing manufacturers specifications meet class rules, as for power gained in removing the pull starter (which are a pain in the butt ) what power % gained would that be? and could be rectified by adding weight. As for changing liners, most people are honest, Optimum performance can be gained through pipes and tuning Pull Start Gas doesnt need to be hindered by too many rules and regulations, if you need to get really serious about racing go to Pro-Tourers. Pull start gas cars were expensive to run 5yrs ago and although were said to be RTR they were not.
In conclusion lets not forget what we race for and that is to have fun, and be with our fellow racers. Kerry Lloyd-Jones...
#69
my 5 cents worth
about 99% of people are not going to agree me here but to cover 2 topics here , in my opinion the rules for gas tourers and electric 540 should be changed to have a list of set chassis and engines.
gastourers eg.
kyosho-v one s3
fw-05s or t second edition
hpi-rs4 3 evo rtr
associated- tc4 rtr
etc. all rtr
and if you have to change engines later on it must come from a approved list of engines.
and the same with 540
-the only thing that you might need to do is change the motor for a silver can and maybe have a battery limit.
that way your not having to create new classes for people to begin racing,
than it will come down price and parts availablity for what you buy cause not all hobby shops stock the same gear.
-
gastourers eg.
kyosho-v one s3
fw-05s or t second edition
hpi-rs4 3 evo rtr
associated- tc4 rtr
etc. all rtr
and if you have to change engines later on it must come from a approved list of engines.
and the same with 540
-the only thing that you might need to do is change the motor for a silver can and maybe have a battery limit.
that way your not having to create new classes for people to begin racing,
than it will come down price and parts availablity for what you buy cause not all hobby shops stock the same gear.
-
#70
Need one set of Rules
You need one set of rules if a class is RTR well you should have a list of them cars and that is it. if you want people to join in they won,t if the rules are all over the place. We see it in other forms of Motor Sport that rules are set in place and one or two people want them changed and they get it and people leave. You need to so pro and inter and novice if have to earn the right to run pro and they are set off state and Natioal champs. Keep it up and it will be like other sports new people will go not getting into it to much fighting.
These my thoughts only and I know most people won,t agree.
These my thoughts only and I know most people won,t agree.
#71
This sort of rule changing in my opinion is not good for the hobby / sport. There are still a number of side exhaust engines on the market that will suit the current rules just fine. Why change the rules to justify some people’s spending? If the rules were changed to accommodate these engines, so that people can run them in their high end cars, there is no way that I could be competitive. At least not with my HPI RTR car with OS cv side exhaust motor. A car that currently suits the rules just fine.
Goldy racer is right.
Perhaps just make the GT rules any side exhaust under 1hp in a car that can be purchased new as a RTR car.
At this point I am thankful for the 540 class. The motor rules are pretty simple and it is accepted that’s how it is.
Goldy racer is right.
Perhaps just make the GT rules any side exhaust under 1hp in a car that can be purchased new as a RTR car.
At this point I am thankful for the 540 class. The motor rules are pretty simple and it is accepted that’s how it is.
#72
Tech Fanatic
I dont think that gas tourers has ever been entry level nearly all the cars are pro tourer chassis including tc3's, it is a hotly contended class and should be given statis of its own. Being as it is far more expensive than ready to run and far quicker. People obviously enjoy the class because it does take ability to drive but not the added expense or added speed of pro tourers.
It does become difficult and damaging when on a low numbers night RTR cars are put in A gas finals, its not fair on either driver.
I think its about time that the serious gas class be considered as a GT class and RTR class be separated and the resellers of cars start to back a good club RTR like the V!S 3 that can later be made competative at not to greater a price, then the driver can decide when he or she is ready to go to the faster gas class.
At present some of the ready to run cars will never be upgradable to do anything but run up and down your driveway.
I think this is why Brendale with the support of a local shop is bringing in a Tc4 ready to run 540 electric which is a good concept at a good price, although it is hard to co-ordinate this it has to be backed by local shops.
Also the issue of the Tg .7Hp. still exists because there is no suitable replacement for the Cvr 1 Hp. and the Top motors are at present hard to get and hard to fit.
Graham
It does become difficult and damaging when on a low numbers night RTR cars are put in A gas finals, its not fair on either driver.
I think its about time that the serious gas class be considered as a GT class and RTR class be separated and the resellers of cars start to back a good club RTR like the V!S 3 that can later be made competative at not to greater a price, then the driver can decide when he or she is ready to go to the faster gas class.
At present some of the ready to run cars will never be upgradable to do anything but run up and down your driveway.
I think this is why Brendale with the support of a local shop is bringing in a Tc4 ready to run 540 electric which is a good concept at a good price, although it is hard to co-ordinate this it has to be backed by local shops.
Also the issue of the Tg .7Hp. still exists because there is no suitable replacement for the Cvr 1 Hp. and the Top motors are at present hard to get and hard to fit.
Graham
#73
V1 S3 RTR - when did that happen, all previous V1S* cars have been kit cars coming as standard with the Kyosho GS motor.
Also the statement about the Top motor isnt strictly limiting, the NovaRossi or the REX equivilants are exactly the same motor in every way (apart from the stamp on the head) and I assume are allowed under the proposed new rules.
The manufacturers specification sheets are exactly the same, even the part numbers for the crankshaft, piston liner exactly are the same. As far as I know the only difference in the tollerance on the machining (i.e. the best bits get sold under the NR name, the next 5% under the TOP and then the REX etc.).
Assuming that the new rules allow any of these identical 1.05 HP engines, their are still plently of good side exhaust (fast) engines available and therefore I dont believe we need to change the rules to allow rear exhausts.
Also the statement about the Top motor isnt strictly limiting, the NovaRossi or the REX equivilants are exactly the same motor in every way (apart from the stamp on the head) and I assume are allowed under the proposed new rules.
The manufacturers specification sheets are exactly the same, even the part numbers for the crankshaft, piston liner exactly are the same. As far as I know the only difference in the tollerance on the machining (i.e. the best bits get sold under the NR name, the next 5% under the TOP and then the REX etc.).
Assuming that the new rules allow any of these identical 1.05 HP engines, their are still plently of good side exhaust (fast) engines available and therefore I dont believe we need to change the rules to allow rear exhausts.
#74
Originally Posted by Broncos
Guys
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
Gas Tourer is supposed to be a class for beginners and less experienced drivers ?
All of this talk about how to fit a cheap motor into an expensive car sounds bizarre to me. Nigel's point is correct - trying to fit a side exhaust into a MTX Prospec or a V1 RRR Evo etc. is the issue at hand - the reality is that these cars do not belong in this class as they are Pro Tourer cars !
For the record (to the Mick Sherman fan club on this thread) - one or two guys driving a motor around one track doesn’t prove anything!
Mick is plenty knowledgeable enough to make any engine go fast or slow, add in the header and pipe combinations and any two runs with the same engine can be vastly different. The issue at hand it that the gas tourer class is meant for beginners and low budget, not so good drivers.
In my opinion keep GT simple, cheap, low class cars (V1 S3, RTR etc) for the beginners and take all of the fancy cars and motors and create a better field of Pro Tourer.
I have no problem with the 1 hp etc. as long as the rule stays side exhaust only, this is the differentiator between GT and Pro, as it at least makes it harder for someone to put a top spec. car on the GT track.
As a new entry into the nitro scene I cannont see the reasoning behind buying a cheap car for GT and then in 6 months time having to buy another car for Open if I decide to make the move and I say if. I don't want to spend alot of money so this is the only option for me. All my gear is 2nd hand(except motor)and won't cost me an arm and a leg to go racing.
On the subject of the TG I was told that with the new rules for this year those motors would be legal so I bought one. Again to keep the cost down. If the motor ends up being disallowed then I will just run Open with a slow motor. It doesn't really bother me.
I really don't understand the problem with allowing the TG or any rear exhaust in but then I am an electric driver so I don't know any better.
#75
SchuMi2, doesnt your statement support the argument that the rules need to be kept under control to allow you to be competitive.
If the rules are opened up to allow 1HP rear exhaust people with low budgets surely cannot compete with people who are spending big on expesive motors (not the TG but other bigger HP motors).
Who told you the TG was going to be allowed and at what level (local club or interclub etc.) ?
I am not aware that any rules have been officially changed yet !
If the rules are opened up to allow 1HP rear exhaust people with low budgets surely cannot compete with people who are spending big on expesive motors (not the TG but other bigger HP motors).
Who told you the TG was going to be allowed and at what level (local club or interclub etc.) ?
I am not aware that any rules have been officially changed yet !