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Old 06-06-2006, 03:17 AM   #1
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Default The Cost of Racing at the Worlds

Heres something to concider for those who are in favour of control tyres.
At the electric ISTC On Road World Championships, the price of a set of pre-mounted (count 4 wheels, tyres & inserts per set) is EUR$35.00 (AUD $60.50) Worlds Tyre Orders
Not wanting to stir the pot, but damn they know how to (over) charge the drivers wanting to compete at this level.
If ever we had to look at prices like this in our economy, I will garentee you that the control tyre rules will scrubbed very quickly.
It is also good to know that We have been approached by some other tyre suppliers willing to supply tyres at better pricing than we have seen at most major meetings that I know of.

Also in the rumour mills, stories from some of the worlds top drivers testing brushless with LiPo cells are complaing about the tyre destruction factor with this combination. Massive speed and loads with a car that is approx 130 grams lighter.

An interesting future ahead
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Old 06-06-2006, 03:51 AM   #2
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with the extra power and runtime of brushless/lipo and people wanting longer races the tyre companys are going to have a job on there hands.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastolfart
Heres something to concider for those who are in favour of control tyres.
At the electric ISTC On Road World Championships, the price of a set of pre-mounted (count 4 wheels, tyres & inserts per set) is EUR$35.00 (AUD $60.50) Worlds Tyre Orders
Not wanting to stir the pot, but damn they know how to (over) charge the drivers wanting to compete at this level.
It's still an awful lot cheaper than open tyres. Imagine how many combinations the teams would need to have in an open tyre race. Thank goodness for control tyres.



As regards brushless/lipo, it's only a problem if we let it be a problem. If chassis and tyres are overpowered, then we can simply regulate the power. There is nothing forcing clubs and ultimately aarcmcc to accept 7.4 volt lipo packs just because manufacturers sell them. If we regulated 6 volt nominal (5 cell nimh), lipo manufacturers would find a way to play the game. The power is in the hands of the racers/clubs/organising bodies to set the rules, not the other way around.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by scott_g
It's still an awful lot cheaper than open tyres. Imagine how many combinations the teams would need to have in an open tyre race. Thank goodness for control tyres.



As regards brushless/lipo, it's only a problem if we let it be a problem. If chassis and tyres are overpowered, then we can simply regulate the power. There is nothing forcing clubs and ultimately aarcmcc to accept 7.4 volt lipo packs just because manufacturers sell them. If we regulated 6 volt nominal (5 cell nimh), lipo manufacturers would find a way to play the game. The power is in the hands of the racers/clubs/organising bodies to set the rules, not the other way around.

I thought the driving force for the current rule changes was to align us with the rest of the world? Now you are proposing to initiate changes that will unlikely be bought in anywhere else?
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
I thought the driving force for the current rule changes was to align us with the rest of the world? Now you are proposing to initiate changes that will unlikely be bought in anywhere else?
I thought the driving force was reduced costs & parity for drivers. The fact that its a global standard is in line with that (correct) thinking.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastolfart

It is also good to know that We have been approached by some other tyre suppliers willing to supply tyres at better pricing than we have seen at most major meetings that I know of.
Hi Pete,
Am I correct in saying that its the host venue which chooses the tyres for a sanctioned event, not AARCMCA?

Cheers
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomix
I thought the driving force was reduced costs & parity for drivers. The fact that its a global standard is in line with that (correct) thinking.

reduced costs? it has cost me more money at every controlled event so far than any outdoor open event i have ever entered. Most people forget about practice costs when considering the real cost of the event.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
reduced costs? it has cost me more money at every controlled event so far than any outdoor open event i have ever entered. Most people forget about practice costs when considering the real cost of the event.
For every person that will say its costs more, there will be a person who will say it costs less. What a serious racer will spend for a variety of tyre compounds in the past, they now spend on quantity of one type, the argument is rhetorical. Moorebank has shown that a good suface greatly reduces tyre costs, people are actually slapping on used tyres because they work better lol. There are plenty of guys practicing on their handout tyres from last years Winterchamps.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
Most people forget about practice costs when considering the real cost of the event.
But practising using one singular known controlled tyre is still cheaper than practising with multiple tyre-insert combinations

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG
There is nothing forcing clubs and ultimately aarcmcc to accept 7.4 volt lipo packs just because manufacturers sell them.
Whilst that is true, past history has shown an overwhelming tendancy for clubs, sanctioning bodies etc to approve every new motor or battey of the month, without any real consideration of long-term effects.

When drivers believe they can gain an advantage by using some new as-yet-illegal device, then they whinge about it until it is approved, even if it is not in the hobby's best interest.

Of course, once the said item is legal - then everyone buys it - the status-quo is returned - and we are once again just alittle bit poorer
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Besercoe
I thought the driving force for the current rule changes was to align us with the rest of the world? Now you are proposing to initiate changes that will unlikely be bought in anywhere else?
Glad to see everyone is positive and willing to engage in reasoned discussion of different ideas...

Maybe they are changes that are being talked about in other parts of the world. My understanding is that Japan either already have, or are seriously considering dropping back to 4 or 5 cell racing. Maybe that's not true and "we" could lead the world to a new and better place. Who knows.

In the case of the tyre rules, alignment with 'the world' is only a side benefit in my view. The move to controlled tyre racing in Australia came from a club's proposal and was voted on nationally. It was a decision of democracy.

Where should rule changes come from if not from grassroots - clubs and organisations determining what they want? Where did Group 20 come from, or Clubspec, or the v8540 racing sydney drivers might remember? Where did truggy racing come from?
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:26 AM   #11
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I could be wrong (it has happened i am sure. lol )
I thought the cost of the take off 27 pre glued were 20 or 25 USD in Florida.
But to answer your question fastolfart the cost of a world champs watching your final one word PRICELESS!!!!
What position was that again .
But gee we ate well fastolfart, Chilles anyone.
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:42 AM   #12
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I knew the knockers would be in like a flash, but the comment was aimed at the cost of control tyres at this meeting, at $60 per set, that is not cheap.
Something that we have to prevent happening in Australia.
At the moment, the host clubs do nominate the tyres for the meetings, it is something we have to look into further to try and reduce costs. At the end of the day, the costs of tyres no mater what we run is the biggest expense we face to be competitive.

Though restricting motors and batteries theoretically would appear to make racing cheaper, it has been proven to make racing costs go up further.
AARCMCC has always followed the IFMAR rules for guide lines for motors and batteries.
The 5 cell mod class was suggested in a previous forum for an in between class from stock to mod, 4 cell would be a total waste of time for mod drivers who race under the current rules as they are not that fast and takes a lot more work and money to get a combination that will be competitive with the top guys.

Lets face it, if you run in modified, it is going to cost $s there is no two ways about it, and if you havenít got the skills, you are not going to catch the Nicholsons, Campbells and Abbotts.

BTW, I did forget to mention that not only the cost of the tyres at the worlds, but if you order X amount of tyres and donít use them all, you still get charged for them all and have to pay in cash during the meeting.
I compare this to the 2004 worlds were we only paid US$25 per set and could make the decision on how many we purchased as the meeting went along.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastolfart
I knew the knockers would be in like a flash, but the comment was aimed at the cost of control tyres at this meeting, at $60 per set, that is not cheap.
Something that we have to prevent happening in Australia.
At the moment, the host clubs do nominate the tyres for the meetings, it is something we have to look into further to try and reduce costs. .
What criterea would a 'tyre supplier' need to meet to win tender at an aarcmcc event? Actually, is there a tender process? Who decides what a fair price is on behalf of all the racers with varying budgets etc? Im all for lower costs, but am confused as to how aarcmcc can assume such a role going forward? Interesting topic though.

Cheers
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:26 PM   #14
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The higher the costs, the less people will race = better chance of winning a sheep station ... thats what we win right??? lol

Bradd... the tires might be controlled but your still permitted to race out of control...


If controls tires are too epensive here in Aus, racers simply wont enter, plenty of otehr race meets to choose from. At the worlds..who cares..majority are factory drivers and/or ego maniacs on holiday.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:28 PM   #15
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ROAR (or does the rule actually come from IFMAR?) applies a maximum cost to modified and stock motors, perhaps a maximum cost per set of tires needs to be applied? Even if its only for the supply of tires at major meetings, it could work.
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