2015 NSW EP10 Off-Road Club Series
03-23-2015, 01:14 AM
#78
Maybe, just maybe, if we have facility next year and can be part of the Club series, we'll (I mean my wife) will make it a Southern Highlands Club special - home made pancakes for Breaky!
03-23-2015, 01:21 AM
#79
Sorry guys no Pancakes. The car will be loaded so no room for the fry pan! The fussy kid can have a Muesli Bar, while the rest of us enjoy a good old fashioned bacon and egg role! Nom Nom...
Maybe, just maybe, if we have facility next year and can be part of the Club series, we'll (I mean my wife) will make it a Southern Highlands Club special - home made pancakes for Breaky!
Maybe, just maybe, if we have facility next year and can be part of the Club series, we'll (I mean my wife) will make it a Southern Highlands Club special - home made pancakes for Breaky!
03-23-2015, 04:48 PM
#80
Hey guys. I’ve done a quick regrade of the grid as it stands at the moment. To be objective and reward the participants of the 2014 season, gradings have been done based on the 2014 final result in the point score. If I’ve put you out of order, please pm me. Those that didn’t have points from last year I just had a guess, but given it will be ifmar qualifying, it shouldn’t affect too much anyway
On the matter of the final result in the 2014 point score, to break a tie-broken score in the final result we adopt the same process as the FIA (given we use FIA point score systems) so the person with the most number of wins earns the higher position, if both have the same number of wins, we then look to number of second placings etc. this had the effect of promoting Luke Olding to 3rd in the 4wd stock class overall
Numbers: ok I think its time to talk about the elephant in the room, and that’s the numbers of entries which have been down from ryde’s round last year, then st ives and into 2015. At the heads of clubs meeting all club heads were asked for any feedback on the series from their club members, I personally asked the table if anyone had received any comments about the 2 day format. At that point no one had heard any negativity but since then I’ve had a few people voice concerns about the format preventing entries as people like to travel with friends etc and if their buddies only run truck and they run buggy, the event doesn’t seem as appealing (I can understand that). Other comments include that clubs with strong truck runners benefit from the current format and people that want to run buggy and truck find it hard to commit to 2 weekends out of 4 in a month (all of which I understand). I’ve also had a lot of negativity regarding truck mod, to the point where its almost worth a clubs vote on whether to keep it at 10.5 as we’re under no obligation to run to all AARCMCC rules if we don’t want to as these aren’t sanctioned races
With all that said, it might be too late to do anything about this year, people may have already booked accommodation, bought mod motors for truck etc but we probably need to look at bringing in a change or a two to sort this out
As always we have the standard constraints of time on a race day to run the ever increasing number of classes sanctioned by AARCMCC (unless we opt to not run some of them)
The feedback I’ve received presented a few possibilities (I’m not advocating or pushing any of them, they are potential fixes to discuss) please add your own if you like
1. Run a separate Truck championship for Clubs ( like the SCT tour of a couple of years ago- this doesn’t solve the problem of people wanting to travel with their mates but it negates any perceived benefits to some clubs in the overall point score)
2. Re-introduce the racing back to one day only per club series round (to do that we’d probably need to drop 1 truck class)
3. Just make it a buggy championship
As I say, im not advocating any of these at the moment, im presenting them as topics of discussion
The other possibility is theres valid reasons why numbers have been down at recent meetings, I know there’s just been a big 1/8 gas event which a lot of the guns have been to so they’re likely to be burned out to back up this weekend etc so we might find the numbers will come back during the year
Lets have no arguments, we just need some constructive discussion and some realistic discussion.
Cheers
Mikey
On the matter of the final result in the 2014 point score, to break a tie-broken score in the final result we adopt the same process as the FIA (given we use FIA point score systems) so the person with the most number of wins earns the higher position, if both have the same number of wins, we then look to number of second placings etc. this had the effect of promoting Luke Olding to 3rd in the 4wd stock class overall
Numbers: ok I think its time to talk about the elephant in the room, and that’s the numbers of entries which have been down from ryde’s round last year, then st ives and into 2015. At the heads of clubs meeting all club heads were asked for any feedback on the series from their club members, I personally asked the table if anyone had received any comments about the 2 day format. At that point no one had heard any negativity but since then I’ve had a few people voice concerns about the format preventing entries as people like to travel with friends etc and if their buddies only run truck and they run buggy, the event doesn’t seem as appealing (I can understand that). Other comments include that clubs with strong truck runners benefit from the current format and people that want to run buggy and truck find it hard to commit to 2 weekends out of 4 in a month (all of which I understand). I’ve also had a lot of negativity regarding truck mod, to the point where its almost worth a clubs vote on whether to keep it at 10.5 as we’re under no obligation to run to all AARCMCC rules if we don’t want to as these aren’t sanctioned races
With all that said, it might be too late to do anything about this year, people may have already booked accommodation, bought mod motors for truck etc but we probably need to look at bringing in a change or a two to sort this out
As always we have the standard constraints of time on a race day to run the ever increasing number of classes sanctioned by AARCMCC (unless we opt to not run some of them)
The feedback I’ve received presented a few possibilities (I’m not advocating or pushing any of them, they are potential fixes to discuss) please add your own if you like
1. Run a separate Truck championship for Clubs ( like the SCT tour of a couple of years ago- this doesn’t solve the problem of people wanting to travel with their mates but it negates any perceived benefits to some clubs in the overall point score)
2. Re-introduce the racing back to one day only per club series round (to do that we’d probably need to drop 1 truck class)
3. Just make it a buggy championship
As I say, im not advocating any of these at the moment, im presenting them as topics of discussion
The other possibility is theres valid reasons why numbers have been down at recent meetings, I know there’s just been a big 1/8 gas event which a lot of the guns have been to so they’re likely to be burned out to back up this weekend etc so we might find the numbers will come back during the year
Lets have no arguments, we just need some constructive discussion and some realistic discussion.
Cheers
Mikey
03-23-2015, 05:58 PM
#81
Just to expand on one issue Michael raised, what I hear from Maitland drivers is that 6 travelling weekends is a bit much to commit to. Most Maitland drivers are in it for the club rather than individual glory. So, if they can't get the numbers for the Truck day, then the club score suffers. If the club isn't competitive because of that then there is less incentive for the average racer to enter the Buggy day.
Most of the options Mikey gave are, as he says, not possible this year because things have already kicked off. The exception IMO, is returning to a 1-day meeting (for the next 3 rounds). I think you could do that without disadvantaging any club or individual points wise. So, that would be fair so long as you kept the current classes.
1-day meetings were attracting 150 entries. The current 2-day Pro-Am has 75 entries at the moment. So, 1-day meetings suit double the number of people as the current format.
I do not think just recombining things into a 1-day meet is a long term solution. I'm pretty confident in predicting that if we do that then by the end of the season the meetings will be full again, and we'll have all the same issues we had before. So, one of the options canvassed will have to be selected for next season.
In fact things may get worse. There are 2 new NSW EP10 OFR clubs with entries in for the Pro-Am whose numbers we can expect to grow. This is great news, we haven't seen growth in club numbers for decades*. However, we will have to look at how to adjust the meeting format in the future.
So, my suggestion would be: for right now, just go back to a 1-day meeting and deal with having to cut-off new entries when the race limit is reached. Use the rest of this year to work out whether to run a separate Truck series for those interested, or just drop truck classes.
*It does mean that club heads will again need to examine how to split 4 rounds amongst more than 4 clubs. Before Illawarra disappeared the solution was to have the club with the States not have a NSW Series round.
--------------------------
Also, what is the track prep schedule for the weekend? I'm trying to figure out how to maximise practice.
Most of the options Mikey gave are, as he says, not possible this year because things have already kicked off. The exception IMO, is returning to a 1-day meeting (for the next 3 rounds). I think you could do that without disadvantaging any club or individual points wise. So, that would be fair so long as you kept the current classes.
1-day meetings were attracting 150 entries. The current 2-day Pro-Am has 75 entries at the moment. So, 1-day meetings suit double the number of people as the current format.
I do not think just recombining things into a 1-day meet is a long term solution. I'm pretty confident in predicting that if we do that then by the end of the season the meetings will be full again, and we'll have all the same issues we had before. So, one of the options canvassed will have to be selected for next season.
In fact things may get worse. There are 2 new NSW EP10 OFR clubs with entries in for the Pro-Am whose numbers we can expect to grow. This is great news, we haven't seen growth in club numbers for decades*. However, we will have to look at how to adjust the meeting format in the future.
So, my suggestion would be: for right now, just go back to a 1-day meeting and deal with having to cut-off new entries when the race limit is reached. Use the rest of this year to work out whether to run a separate Truck series for those interested, or just drop truck classes.
*It does mean that club heads will again need to examine how to split 4 rounds amongst more than 4 clubs. Before Illawarra disappeared the solution was to have the club with the States not have a NSW Series round.
--------------------------
Also, what is the track prep schedule for the weekend? I'm trying to figure out how to maximise practice.
03-24-2015, 01:52 AM
#83
Hi Guys,
From relatively 'noob' position (I have competed in the Club series from time to time in recent years but not regularly) and from the position of a new club forming to south of Sydney I would like to make these suggestions, which may have been discussed between the clubs in the past (apologies if old ground):
1. Being 1.5hrs to the closest venue in Sydney travelling 2 weekends for 4 months is onerous, I can see that the Maitland Club would find this problematic as they are further than us. It also hurts actual club days that month. Essentially you would need to commit 4 weekends a month depending on when you run your meets during the club series or you might lose meetings that month? Personally I would run stadium truck class if it was a one day event to have some fun for myself whilst I support the kids in junior class. But I find it diffcult to commit to the purchase of the truck because its on another weekend. So that hurts that class from developing (from my individual perspective). Motor type is not an issue for me mod or 10.5 I would run it either way, if I could run the same day as juniors. By no means am i suggesting moving juniors to the truck day either!
2. Maitland Round - for our club to compete we would definitely need to overnight the Saturday evening as its about 4.5hrs drive. I can't commit to that twice in one month to run trucks and back up two weeks later to run the juniors and another class for myself. I'm sure in the future if we were to hold a round the Maitland guys would be looking to overnight here in the Southern Highlands.
3. So my suggestion is why not have a 1.5 day event 4 times in the year? Schedule a round of practice on Saturday say 12 or 1pm and then move in to early qualifiers finishing 4.30 pm (noting all event this year are during shorter daylight hours). Thus for the non Sydney based clubs they only have 4 overnight stays (potentially) rather than 8. Thats a big cost saving. Sydney runners who only have 2 potential over night stays if two events are outside of Sydney.
4. If you make the meets 2 full days, then 2 overnights are required per meeting, Friday and Saturday and only those that can get off work on Friday can practice. That then gets us back to 8 overnights, which is expensive.
I'm aware today that some people are working Saturdays as well and acknowledge its hard for the clubs to cater to everyone.
I hope we can all come to a solution that sees the sport grow and that has to be at the club level. Clubs days is where the increase needs to be. Its not always the big events that are a measure of whether the sport is growing or declining. We certainly need big events. If they are popular great, but they need a cut off regarding numbers so they can be run in time frames - first in best dressed as they say.
From relatively 'noob' position (I have competed in the Club series from time to time in recent years but not regularly) and from the position of a new club forming to south of Sydney I would like to make these suggestions, which may have been discussed between the clubs in the past (apologies if old ground):
1. Being 1.5hrs to the closest venue in Sydney travelling 2 weekends for 4 months is onerous, I can see that the Maitland Club would find this problematic as they are further than us. It also hurts actual club days that month. Essentially you would need to commit 4 weekends a month depending on when you run your meets during the club series or you might lose meetings that month? Personally I would run stadium truck class if it was a one day event to have some fun for myself whilst I support the kids in junior class. But I find it diffcult to commit to the purchase of the truck because its on another weekend. So that hurts that class from developing (from my individual perspective). Motor type is not an issue for me mod or 10.5 I would run it either way, if I could run the same day as juniors. By no means am i suggesting moving juniors to the truck day either!
2. Maitland Round - for our club to compete we would definitely need to overnight the Saturday evening as its about 4.5hrs drive. I can't commit to that twice in one month to run trucks and back up two weeks later to run the juniors and another class for myself. I'm sure in the future if we were to hold a round the Maitland guys would be looking to overnight here in the Southern Highlands.
3. So my suggestion is why not have a 1.5 day event 4 times in the year? Schedule a round of practice on Saturday say 12 or 1pm and then move in to early qualifiers finishing 4.30 pm (noting all event this year are during shorter daylight hours). Thus for the non Sydney based clubs they only have 4 overnight stays (potentially) rather than 8. Thats a big cost saving. Sydney runners who only have 2 potential over night stays if two events are outside of Sydney.
4. If you make the meets 2 full days, then 2 overnights are required per meeting, Friday and Saturday and only those that can get off work on Friday can practice. That then gets us back to 8 overnights, which is expensive.
I'm aware today that some people are working Saturdays as well and acknowledge its hard for the clubs to cater to everyone.
I hope we can all come to a solution that sees the sport grow and that has to be at the club level. Clubs days is where the increase needs to be. Its not always the big events that are a measure of whether the sport is growing or declining. We certainly need big events. If they are popular great, but they need a cut off regarding numbers so they can be run in time frames - first in best dressed as they say.
03-24-2015, 04:21 AM
#86
Tech Initiate
I put mine in but not up there
03-24-2015, 07:02 AM
#87
Good thoughts David.
Something else you've just reminded me of, is that previously the clubs all had an agreement not to run club days on Club Series race days. Seemingly this doesn't apply to the Truck days (which is understandable as blocking out all your club days one month wouldn't be great), I'd guess that would have to have an effect as well.
Lots of people do make a weekend of these races. For them a 1.5 day meeting is no different to what they do now. However we tried exactly that in 2008. The result was exactly the same as we're seeing now numbers wise.
It turns out that people competing in the Club Series are made up of close to equal parts those who make a weekend of it, and those who get their practice in another day, and just turn up to race on the Sunday. Especially amongst the Sydney drivers a large portion have other commitments on Saturdays, and when you make doing the whole weekend a requirement you lose around 40% of people.
Something else you've just reminded me of, is that previously the clubs all had an agreement not to run club days on Club Series race days. Seemingly this doesn't apply to the Truck days (which is understandable as blocking out all your club days one month wouldn't be great), I'd guess that would have to have an effect as well.
Lots of people do make a weekend of these races. For them a 1.5 day meeting is no different to what they do now. However we tried exactly that in 2008. The result was exactly the same as we're seeing now numbers wise.
It turns out that people competing in the Club Series are made up of close to equal parts those who make a weekend of it, and those who get their practice in another day, and just turn up to race on the Sunday. Especially amongst the Sydney drivers a large portion have other commitments on Saturdays, and when you make doing the whole weekend a requirement you lose around 40% of people.
03-24-2015, 06:35 PM
#89
Good thoughts David.
Something else you've just reminded me of, is that previously the clubs all had an agreement not to run club days on Club Series race days. Seemingly this doesn't apply to the Truck days (which is understandable as blocking out all your club days one month wouldn't be great), I'd guess that would have to have an effect as well.
Lots of people do make a weekend of these races. For them a 1.5 day meeting is no different to what they do now. However we tried exactly that in 2008. The result was exactly the same as we're seeing now numbers wise.
It turns out that people competing in the Club Series are made up of close to equal parts those who make a weekend of it, and those who get their practice in another day, and just turn up to race on the Sunday. Especially amongst the Sydney drivers a large portion have other commitments on Saturdays, and when you make doing the whole weekend a requirement you lose around 40% of people.
Something else you've just reminded me of, is that previously the clubs all had an agreement not to run club days on Club Series race days. Seemingly this doesn't apply to the Truck days (which is understandable as blocking out all your club days one month wouldn't be great), I'd guess that would have to have an effect as well.
Lots of people do make a weekend of these races. For them a 1.5 day meeting is no different to what they do now. However we tried exactly that in 2008. The result was exactly the same as we're seeing now numbers wise.
It turns out that people competing in the Club Series are made up of close to equal parts those who make a weekend of it, and those who get their practice in another day, and just turn up to race on the Sunday. Especially amongst the Sydney drivers a large portion have other commitments on Saturdays, and when you make doing the whole weekend a requirement you lose around 40% of people.
03-24-2015, 06:59 PM
#90
Hey guys,
What time do we expect the meet to finish on Sunday?
I hope I can squeeze in a race day.
Cheers,
Brett
What time do we expect the meet to finish on Sunday?
I hope I can squeeze in a race day.
Cheers,
Brett