2013 Knox Cup Jun 9th, Rnd2 ORRCA Victorian Driver's Series, EP10 OFR
05-09-2013, 05:47 AM
#32
I love the idea of troubleshooting and testing new idea, and it's the only way we can learn if its going to work, i think a lot of poeple get carried away and most like to voice thier oppinion. It's all good though cause it's just feedback, and without feedback we can't make things better or improove as a whole.
RPM/kV testing is great, and in 540 it was fine, hand out motor, engraved can, rpm checked before handout, sealed can. At the end rpm could be checked again, if the there was a large increase (i know we used to have leway in RPM as most 540 would inscrease after a couple runs) but if there was a massive increase then you knew the motor was modified, all the oldschool guys know how that was done. But it was almost impossible to hide with a handout 540 motor.
The issue we now have with 21.5 is, unlocked timing, unsealed can, changable rotor, changable stator, anything that takes the motor outside the legal paramiters. All things done to modify the motor can be changed back before checking (i know thats one of the major issues in 17.5 racing)
I 100% agree that kV checking is a good initative, BUT constructive feedback is people will find a way around it, those that dont/wont are usually the novice racers or the ones first getting into it, those who the class was originally inteded for. Those that do find ways to bend the rules to go faster should just chuck a 17.5 in there and race stock. I realise there is the fun of getting every last little % of a motor and car to make it go faster (thats the attraction to a stock class) but personaly i don't think it's in the spirit of 540/21.5 racing.
RPM/kV testing is great, and in 540 it was fine, hand out motor, engraved can, rpm checked before handout, sealed can. At the end rpm could be checked again, if the there was a large increase (i know we used to have leway in RPM as most 540 would inscrease after a couple runs) but if there was a massive increase then you knew the motor was modified, all the oldschool guys know how that was done. But it was almost impossible to hide with a handout 540 motor.
The issue we now have with 21.5 is, unlocked timing, unsealed can, changable rotor, changable stator, anything that takes the motor outside the legal paramiters. All things done to modify the motor can be changed back before checking (i know thats one of the major issues in 17.5 racing)
I 100% agree that kV checking is a good initative, BUT constructive feedback is people will find a way around it, those that dont/wont are usually the novice racers or the ones first getting into it, those who the class was originally inteded for. Those that do find ways to bend the rules to go faster should just chuck a 17.5 in there and race stock. I realise there is the fun of getting every last little % of a motor and car to make it go faster (thats the attraction to a stock class) but personaly i don't think it's in the spirit of 540/21.5 racing.
Last edited by Andrew Selvaggi; 05-09-2013 at 07:44 AM.
05-10-2013, 07:51 PM
#33
if the speed is to fast for 21.5T why not just change the FDR to 6.5( or slower if needed), would make a lot less hassle to check the cars as well
i think with going to a KV limit it will be about getting as much torque out of the motor while being on the KV Limit.
FWIW, the motor i currently have in the car is kV 1700 with 12.5mm rotor (standed) at 0 timing and am able to stay with in half a lap of the front runners on a clean run. The car looses about 5-6 car lengths down the straight at keilor but makes it up through the infield from it's acceleration out of the turns
i think with going to a KV limit it will be about getting as much torque out of the motor while being on the KV Limit.
FWIW, the motor i currently have in the car is kV 1700 with 12.5mm rotor (standed) at 0 timing and am able to stay with in half a lap of the front runners on a clean run. The car looses about 5-6 car lengths down the straight at keilor but makes it up through the infield from it's acceleration out of the turns
05-12-2013, 04:23 AM
#35
05-12-2013, 05:41 PM
#36
heres my 20cents worth...............
way back when the 21.5 was first going to be a new 540 class i said ....that this is the motor that should b used and everyone jump on me!!!!!!!
as for KV how r u going to control that every motor is not the same whats next ...OHH u cant run that because the can has too many vets and your motor has an alum end bell and mine is plastic .......wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
battarys play a part as do speedys....... aswell as setting eveything up....... car!!!!!!!!!!!! low rotating parts ...like layshafts,,,, bearings,,,and other go fast parts make cars fast too u know no just motors!!!!!!!!!!
or r people going too cry about that too and band them bits!!!!
cheers..
any way maybe now people will listen to reason!!!!!!!!!! this is the only motor that should be run in 21.5 and for that mater 17.5 aswell!!!!!!!!!
this motor is locked at 30" and you cant do nothing to them but clean them..... all parts r marked so u cant cheat and the windings r coated so u cant rewind them!!!!!!!!!!!
this is the easest way to contol the class without all the BULLSHIT!!!!!! they come in 21.5,17.5 and 13.5
way back when the 21.5 was first going to be a new 540 class i said ....that this is the motor that should b used and everyone jump on me!!!!!!!
as for KV how r u going to control that every motor is not the same whats next ...OHH u cant run that because the can has too many vets and your motor has an alum end bell and mine is plastic .......wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
battarys play a part as do speedys....... aswell as setting eveything up....... car!!!!!!!!!!!! low rotating parts ...like layshafts,,,, bearings,,,and other go fast parts make cars fast too u know no just motors!!!!!!!!!!
or r people going too cry about that too and band them bits!!!!
cheers..
any way maybe now people will listen to reason!!!!!!!!!! this is the only motor that should be run in 21.5 and for that mater 17.5 aswell!!!!!!!!!
this motor is locked at 30" and you cant do nothing to them but clean them..... all parts r marked so u cant cheat and the windings r coated so u cant rewind them!!!!!!!!!!!
this is the easest way to contol the class without all the BULLSHIT!!!!!! they come in 21.5,17.5 and 13.5
05-12-2013, 06:15 PM
#37
heres my 20cents worth...............
way back when the 21.5 was first going to be a new 540 class i said ....that this is the motor that should b used and everyone jump on me!!!!!!!
as for KV how r u going to control that every motor is not the same whats next ...OHH u cant run that because the can has too many vets and your motor has an alum end bell and mine is plastic .......wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
battarys play a part as do speedys....... aswell as setting eveything up....... car!!!!!!!!!!!! low rotating parts ...like layshafts,,,, bearings,,,and other go fast parts make cars fast too u know no just motors!!!!!!!!!!
or r people going too cry about that too and band them bits!!!!
cheers..
any way maybe now people will listen to reason!!!!!!!!!! this is the only motor that should be run in 21.5 and for that mater 17.5 aswell!!!!!!!!!
this motor is locked at 30" and you cant do nothing to them but clean them..... all parts r marked so u cant cheat and the windings r coated so u cant rewind them!!!!!!!!!!!
this is the easest way to contol the class without all the BULLSHIT!!!!!! they come in 21.5,17.5 and 13.5
way back when the 21.5 was first going to be a new 540 class i said ....that this is the motor that should b used and everyone jump on me!!!!!!!
as for KV how r u going to control that every motor is not the same whats next ...OHH u cant run that because the can has too many vets and your motor has an alum end bell and mine is plastic .......wake up!!!!!!!!!!!
battarys play a part as do speedys....... aswell as setting eveything up....... car!!!!!!!!!!!! low rotating parts ...like layshafts,,,, bearings,,,and other go fast parts make cars fast too u know no just motors!!!!!!!!!!
or r people going too cry about that too and band them bits!!!!
cheers..
any way maybe now people will listen to reason!!!!!!!!!! this is the only motor that should be run in 21.5 and for that mater 17.5 aswell!!!!!!!!!
this motor is locked at 30" and you cant do nothing to them but clean them..... all parts r marked so u cant cheat and the windings r coated so u cant rewind them!!!!!!!!!!!
this is the easest way to contol the class without all the BULLSHIT!!!!!! they come in 21.5,17.5 and 13.5
There has been discussion re handout motors for 21.5 at the Vics and 17.5 at the Nats.
I'm fairly sure Speed Passion do a fixed endbell 21.5 as well.
At the end of the day, it's a motor class, not a skill class...
05-12-2013, 06:22 PM
#38
We all should be racing modified (open motor) with an A,B and C grade. And when you are good enough you move up a grade.
05-12-2013, 07:06 PM
#39
Try not to get offended Paul, you knew people would get mad when you suggested it.
You're doing a stellar job mate.
Just let us know what we have to do... I'd rather not have to do stuff before or between racing as I tend to get a little anxious and have to deal with the young one.
Oh, I would really appreciate it if you could find me a motor that can help me set up my car and make me drive the correct lines?
Ant
You're doing a stellar job mate.
Just let us know what we have to do... I'd rather not have to do stuff before or between racing as I tend to get a little anxious and have to deal with the young one.
Oh, I would really appreciate it if you could find me a motor that can help me set up my car and make me drive the correct lines?
Ant
Last edited by Ant73; 05-12-2013 at 08:52 PM.
05-12-2013, 09:15 PM
#41
m
hand out motors then hand out batterys ectra ectra list goes on what are we racing for fun or ........
05-12-2013, 11:10 PM
#44
The long term goal will be a test for both 21.5 and 17.5, we just started with 21.5 as there may be less entries to test Current thinking is power supply with constant output, remove motor from buggy with everything still wired up, plug in speedy to power supply, pull full throttle and test rpm...this is still a proposal, plenty of others working in the background to make this happen with minimal fuss for both the driver and tester.
We in Aus test fnck all compared to other major events, think yourself lucky you're not being voltage tested before you're put on the line, batteries put through a go/no go guage and motors stripped and micro henries tested and so on...what are you so scared of????
Current thinking is power supply with constant output, remove motor from buggy with everything still wired up, plug in speedy to power supply, pull full throttle and test rpm...this is still a proposal, plenty of others working in the background to make this happen with minimal fuss for both the driver and tester.We in Aus test fnck all compared to other major events, think yourself lucky you're not being voltage tested before you're put on the line, batteries put through a go/no go guage and motors stripped and micro henries tested and so on...what are you so scared of????