SEQ 2012 Interclub Challenge
04-24-2012, 02:14 PM
#61
There are 2 ways to bring a sport into disrepute; one is by infringements incurred during a game the other is by commenting on them in a media outlet. It appears we have the daily double here.
Rules are rules or some say they are guidelines, Yellow and red cards are issued in some sports depending on the seriousness of the infringement. The best Referees in the game use thier discretion or common sense when issuing penalties, to determine whether there was an unfair advantage before making a decision and applying a penalty.
It was deemed by the referees that the breach of rules did not give an unfair advantage and that these Cylinder heads are downgrades and had been used on these engines at other interclub events in previous years. The second instance was with another driver when 1/3 of the track was cut and not addressed. A number of Spectators brought this to the officials attention after the race and officials deemed this to be an advantage and awarded a 10 sec penalty.
The competitors and persons in question were warned of these infringements and informed at the next event there would be automatic disqualification.
It appears to have been handled with diplomacy and common sense and in the spirit of the game. Or was jail time required.
Anyway, Just my interpretation of the event, as I too could well be wrong. As most sportsmen will say, there is always next week.
RC Lunitic
Rules are rules or some say they are guidelines, Yellow and red cards are issued in some sports depending on the seriousness of the infringement. The best Referees in the game use thier discretion or common sense when issuing penalties, to determine whether there was an unfair advantage before making a decision and applying a penalty.
It was deemed by the referees that the breach of rules did not give an unfair advantage and that these Cylinder heads are downgrades and had been used on these engines at other interclub events in previous years. The second instance was with another driver when 1/3 of the track was cut and not addressed. A number of Spectators brought this to the officials attention after the race and officials deemed this to be an advantage and awarded a 10 sec penalty.
The competitors and persons in question were warned of these infringements and informed at the next event there would be automatic disqualification.
It appears to have been handled with diplomacy and common sense and in the spirit of the game. Or was jail time required.
Anyway, Just my interpretation of the event, as I too could well be wrong. As most sportsmen will say, there is always next week.
RC Lunitic
Last time I looked, we race by rules not by guidelines.Rules are for actual racing and fair competition guide lines are there for organisation and setup of the event. Before racing started on the Saturday, we were advised by the organisers of the inter club event that ALL RULES were to be adhered to and if any of these rules were broken, that the consequences for this would be disqualification from the event. It was not said that we have rules for this race, but if you break them, all will be fine and we will reward you for this. Especially since the peoples involved in breaking rules has been racing for a length of time and should know the rules by now.
There was no need for debate after the protest was lodged. A rule was broken and the penalty for breaking this rule was disqualification and the points stripped from their clubs. Plain and simple.
Also, I spoke to the powers to be of LCRCCC on Saturday evening after the event and they advised that only one person supposedly put in a complaint about my so called infringement, not several people as some people claim. And the person who put in the claim was actually racing at the time and he could not have possibly seen this supposed breach. If I supposedly deserved the penalty, why was I not given a drive through penalty during the race not at the end of the race. Also I was not asked about the incident so I was not given the chance to defend myself against this claim like the other persons involved in the breach of the rules.I thought we lived in a democratic society not a totalitarian society. If this incident was so obvious, why was it not picked up by the people monitoring the race?This is the actual interpretation of the event not a pull it out of a hat version.
04-24-2012, 05:56 PM
#62
Looking at it from a statistical viewpoint, there was roughly 2% difference in the fastest lap times between the Gas and the Pro Tourer. If the engine is supposed to be 60% more powerful and only represents a 2% on the clock not sure what to make of it really.
One way to look at it is that there's very little difference to a newcomer if there's only 2% margin...
One way to look at it is that there's very little difference to a newcomer if there's only 2% margin...
04-24-2012, 07:07 PM
#63
+1 that's my point this is no longer a beginners class or feeder to RC clubs need to have a hard look at the whole rule as it stands now when I started it was pull start no box starting side exhaust engines only these engines would not fit in mugens ( unless you cut the car up ) so most cars were rtr type.... It was cheap much slower numbers of competitors was high 30 + on Friday night I am sure clubs would love these numbers in one class now.... Sure there was some cheating back then too but no where on the scale of what is happening ATM...so all I can say is if clubs do not act on changes nothing will change no newbies more of the same crap that's goin on now..... Steve ... If you have been running in gt for 2+ years about time you stop Being a coward move to pro t you can modify the crap out your engines and no one will care.........
04-24-2012, 08:55 PM
#64
Looking at it from a statistical viewpoint, there was roughly 2% difference in the fastest lap times between the Gas and the Pro Tourer. If the engine is supposed to be 60% more powerful and only represents a 2% on the clock not sure what to make of it really.
One way to look at it is that there's very little difference to a newcomer if there's only 2% margin...
One way to look at it is that there's very little difference to a newcomer if there's only 2% margin...
I believe nearly all the pro tourer drivers on the Sunday where using a TG Sports with a larger venturey, it only gives you up to half a second a lap quicker than using the standard TG venturey. That was probably why the times were not much quicker in Pro Tourer. Hope this has helped.
Thanks Darren
04-25-2012, 12:38 AM
#65
Blis
I believe nearly all the pro tourer drivers on the Sunday where using a TG Sports with a larger venturey, it only gives you up to half a second a lap quicker than using the standard TG venturey. That was probably why the times were not much quicker in Pro Tourer. Hope this has helped.
Thanks Darren
I believe nearly all the pro tourer drivers on the Sunday where using a TG Sports with a larger venturey, it only gives you up to half a second a lap quicker than using the standard TG venturey. That was probably why the times were not much quicker in Pro Tourer. Hope this has helped.
Thanks Darren
Steve. The best sauce is eta barbeque ..ha ha.. Just goop it on your favorite ....lol.....
04-25-2012, 06:52 PM
#66
26-4-12
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
04-25-2012, 10:18 PM
#67
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Landsborough, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,142
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
26-4-12
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
It's irrelevant now, but no-one can tell for certain if there is an advantage. The Sports engine was only a limited edition, and there are only a few of the Sports engines around. I prefer that carby; but the head of the Sports only makes the engine hard to tune, but perhaps adding a head shim could fix that. We are privileged to have the option of either, but we preferred to run the standard because that head works better. The carby of the Sports doesn't retain the heat like the standard one does however, and is better. Venturi configuration of it is more like carbys of other engines, and could also make a difference.
Kindest regards,
Lars.
04-25-2012, 10:19 PM
#68
Tech Fanatic
tg
are they going to change wording four future events 2 encourate all 3 engens parts and ex so there is no more problems over what is a tg
greg
greg
04-25-2012, 10:50 PM
#69
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Landsborough, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,142
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Kindest regards,
Lars.
P.S. those that are unsure of rules get clarifications in other events from the organisers, scrutineers or from Governing bodies before preparing for an event.
Last edited by Chickentrader; 04-25-2012 at 10:57 PM. Reason: P.S. added
04-26-2012, 12:51 AM
#70
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Landsborough, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,142
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
26-4-12
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
And the excuse that the rest of the cars were not scrutineered is just pathetic, and obviously just a misguided and gutless attempt to somehow placate those that deserved their disqualification for some brownie points, because they hold powerful positions in their clubs. And that crap about horsepower ratings is just nonsense: the reason for anyone to modify an engine is to make it go better, nothing else! Shame!
P.S. I take back my apology for calling it a "Run What You Brung" class. It truly is one now, and I just can't believe what you have done to the once so awesome Interclub Challenge.
Last edited by Chickentrader; 04-26-2012 at 01:20 AM. Reason: P.S. added
04-26-2012, 01:19 AM
#71
Tech Fanatic
good on you lars you hit the nail one more hit in the coffin of tg all the people that ran are tared with the one brush whether they had played or not after reading the post above they should have been excluded from results but not the rest of races the rules are very clear about what happens after you get it out of box///get it dirty is about all you are allowed greg old winger
Last edited by greg.dawn; 04-26-2012 at 01:35 AM.
04-26-2012, 02:03 AM
#72
26-4-12
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
Re: LCRCCC Interclub Round 1 Gas Tourer Final Saturday 21st April
The Committee of LCRCCC.inc has decided to rescind the final results of the race.
It has been confirmed that the Engines of both John La Spina 1st and Peter Giblin 2nd where outside the guild lines of the Rules.
LCRCCC apologies to the other drivers in this event but due to the lack of Scruiteering of all entrants the decision has been made to rescind all results and remove all points gained towards the “ Clubs Final Totals”
The Committee acknowledges that although the Engines where not as per the rules there was no apparent advantage gained by interchanging , heads or carburetors from the Max OS TG Engines. It is noted that all three variants of the TG are all rated at 0.7 hp.
The use of these “interchanged” Engines appear to be common at many club race days.
Once again our Apologies to those drivers who raced in good faith and in the spirit of the interclub.
Revised Club Points. .............. Series Points
LCRCCC .................... 477 ........ 10
BAYSIDE ................... 412 ........ 8
FRASER COAST ......... 240 ......... 6
SUNSHINE COAST....... 162 ......... 5
CHARGERS ................. 103 ......... 4
BRENDALE ................. 26 ......... 3
Shane Hyde for LCRCCC.Inc
Hi Shane
Does this mean that by taking all points from all the gas drivers that you don’t have the balls to just disqualify two drivers? What about all the electric drivers that were under in weight and told “just go and put some weight on the car”? Do these guys also get disqualified for breaching the rules and disqualifying them from the event as well?
If this was an electric driver that did not conform to the rules and run a battery or engine that was not on the approved list of the ROAR or BRCA, this driver would have been disqualified with no questions asked.
So, if this is the case, I would like a refund of my nomination fee for the club’s disgusting attitude in relation to the rules and race management.
Not sure how the club will go now, after this year being awarded the AARCMCC Nationals. How can AARCMCC or even ORRCA QLD be assured that this club can up hold the so called GUIDE LINES and RULES when at this level of racing (INTERCLUB) you can’t even do that?
As far as the interchanging of engine parts at club meetings, whose club are we talking about - what are you on? This club sticks all gas drivers in one group at all their race meets, and this event is not a RUN WHAT U BRUNG CRAP, this is an INTERCLUB EVENT in case you forgot, and these rules don’t always relate to club racing.
And secondly all drivers and pitman regardless of age are responsible for their cars to make sure they are within the so called guide lines or to be exact, the rules, and the host club to uphold these rules in events of a deliberate breach for which happen this weekend.
Taking all points from all drivers who spent time and money on this weekend is unfair and unjust to all that did play by the so called GUIDE LINES and RULES. Once again the drivers are the ones paying the penalty for other driver’s and pitmen’s indiscretions, and I don’t accept the apology from the club due the lack of respect of all gas drivers, and the contempt of them that you are showing.
04-26-2012, 02:19 AM
#73
After reading the post a second time I am now starting to comprehend that you are disqualifying all drivers in Gas, because two drivers modified their engines to make their engines go better than what the manufacturer intended!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you stark raving crazy???????? What have we done to deserve this?????? For you and everyone else's information; we started our preparation for this and the Gas Tourer event back in early February, and you has no right or reason to disqualify us or anyone else that has not been found in breech of anything. It is just utter contempt of all Gas drivers that came to your event in good faith; without any intention to cheat, to label all of us like this! No apology can possibly make this right!
And the excuse that the rest of the cars were not scrutineered is just pathetic, and obviously just a misguided and gutless attempt to somehow placate those that deserved their disqualification for some brownie points, because they hold powerful positions in their clubs. And that crap about horsepower ratings is just nonsense: the reason for anyone to modify an engine is to make it go better, nothing else! Shame!
P.S. I take back my apology for calling it a "Run What You Brung" class. It truly is one now, and I just can't believe what you have done to the once so awesome Interclub Challenge.
And the excuse that the rest of the cars were not scrutineered is just pathetic, and obviously just a misguided and gutless attempt to somehow placate those that deserved their disqualification for some brownie points, because they hold powerful positions in their clubs. And that crap about horsepower ratings is just nonsense: the reason for anyone to modify an engine is to make it go better, nothing else! Shame!
P.S. I take back my apology for calling it a "Run What You Brung" class. It truly is one now, and I just can't believe what you have done to the once so awesome Interclub Challenge.
They have not called or accused anybody of cheating or even disqualified anyone. They have rescinded the race, made it null and void. They even apologised for the lack of scrutineering on all the cars in the event ,not just the first Three. This would not have been an easy decision for them to make as someone is always dissapointed with this sort of outcome.
I run a TG at club level and also do not want to be accused of cheating, i personally think the inter-club rule needs to be amended to accommodate all TG Engines sooner rather than latter.
I did not run in Inter-club because I could not buy a TG sports and felt I would be disadvantaged if I used the standard TG with the standard Carby. I could have used a sports carby though. But did not have any paper work for the Sports Tg Engine. But it would have been the same as everybody else,s car. But i too would have been disqualified if i could not show the paper work, would i have been cheating!
There is to many variables in this engine rule, it's also advantages to anyone who is lucky enough to have a genuine Tg sports over a standard TG. The TG sport has brought nothing but trouble. Once again the sooner we change this inter-club rule the better.
Thanks Darren
04-26-2012, 02:43 AM
#74
Here here well said Lars and John I think that Logan needs to refund our money for the shambles of an event and I agree Shane needs to grow some and also man up and publicly apologise to me for belittling me infront of everyone there at the presentation. Like the saying goes karma is a bitch.
04-26-2012, 03:39 AM
#75
Lars,
They have not called or accused anybody of cheating or even disqualified anyone. They have rescinded the race, made it null and void. They even apologised for the lack of scrutineering on all the cars in the event ,not just the first Three. This would not have been an easy decision for them to make as someone is always dissapointed with this sort of outcome.
I run a TG at club level and also do not want to be accused of cheating, i personally think the inter-club rule needs to be amended to accommodate all TG Engines sooner rather than latter.
I did not run in Inter-club because I could not buy a TG sports and felt I would be disadvantaged if I used the standard TG with the standard Carby. I could have used a sports carby though. But did not have any paper work for the Sports Tg Engine. But it would have been the same as everybody else,s car. But i too would have been disqualified if i could not show the paper work, would i have been cheating!
There is to many variables in this engine rule, it's also advantages to anyone who is lucky enough to have a genuine Tg sports over a standard TG. The TG sport has brought nothing but trouble. Once again the sooner we change this inter-club rule the better.
Thanks Darren
They have not called or accused anybody of cheating or even disqualified anyone. They have rescinded the race, made it null and void. They even apologised for the lack of scrutineering on all the cars in the event ,not just the first Three. This would not have been an easy decision for them to make as someone is always dissapointed with this sort of outcome.
I run a TG at club level and also do not want to be accused of cheating, i personally think the inter-club rule needs to be amended to accommodate all TG Engines sooner rather than latter.
I did not run in Inter-club because I could not buy a TG sports and felt I would be disadvantaged if I used the standard TG with the standard Carby. I could have used a sports carby though. But did not have any paper work for the Sports Tg Engine. But it would have been the same as everybody else,s car. But i too would have been disqualified if i could not show the paper work, would i have been cheating!
There is to many variables in this engine rule, it's also advantages to anyone who is lucky enough to have a genuine Tg sports over a standard TG. The TG sport has brought nothing but trouble. Once again the sooner we change this inter-club rule the better.
Thanks Darren
that all did the right things it it good to see some justice has been done and those people that were caught doing the wrong thing have been punished but i don't agree with resinding the event that is the cowards way out of things.